The beloved Wizard City revamp in June also presented a single Player versus Player (PvP) change: the Bad Juju nerf. Although some praised the change, some suffered as a result. Throughout the decade Wizard101 has run, it is the very first card with a varying effect from Player versus Environment (PvE). The nerf is likely due to the "spam" (repeated use) of Bad Juju within PvP- particularly by those with great resist. The Bad Juju nerf should be reversed because the strategy involving its use can be counterracted- as all strategies within PvP can.
The PvP Arena allows wizards of all levels and experience to employ any variety of strategies they wish. Although some strategies may receive complaints when used, nerfs seldomly take place. Death- astonishingly, despite their lack of high-level PvP viability- has received the most direct nerfs. Call of Khrulhu, Winged Sorrow, Beguile mechanics and Bad Juju have all been subject to diminishing changes while other schools seemingly face none. The Bad Juju nerf directly targetted the strategy of "Juju spam" with the harsh "-25% of max health" each usage. It is possible to decimate an enemy nearly instantly with a single shadow pip- yet Kingsisle prefers to address a strategy that was not inherently common.
Spamming Bad Juju is merely a strategy used to win, as all strategies are. It is certainly possible to overcome this strategy. Additionally, it requires skill; did are not easily attain the rank of Warlord using this method. The harsh PvP nerf hinders the spell significantly- to be useless, perhaps. Juju spammers were certainly not the only ones to utilize the spell- it may also be effective in the removal of traps and negative charms, such as those from Efreet.
Overall, variety in strategy was neglected to be encouraged, hence the nerf. The Bad Juju spell was deemed as annoying to some, however, it remained to be a valid strategy despite the criticism. Several strategies are subjectively annoying or unfair- but there are countless ways to counteract them aside from pleading with Kingsisle for a nerf.
The beloved Wizard City revamp in June also presented a single Player versus Player (PvP) change: the Bad Juju nerf. Although some praised the change, some suffered as a result. Throughout the decade Wizard101 has run, it is the very first card with a varying effect from Player versus Environment (PvE). The nerf is likely due to the "spam" (repeated use) of Bad Juju within PvP- particularly by those with great resist. The Bad Juju nerf should be reversed because the strategy involving its use can be counterracted- as all strategies within PvP can.
The PvP Arena allows wizards of all levels and experience to employ any variety of strategies they wish. Although some strategies may receive complaints when used, nerfs seldomly take place. Death- astonishingly, despite their lack of high-level PvP viability- has received the most direct nerfs. Call of Khrulhu, Winged Sorrow, Beguile mechanics and Bad Juju have all been subject to diminishing changes while other schools seemingly face none. The Bad Juju nerf directly targetted the strategy of "Juju spam" with the harsh "-25% of max health" each usage. It is possible to decimate an enemy nearly instantly with a single shadow pip- yet Kingsisle prefers to address a strategy that was not inherently common.
Spamming Bad Juju is merely a strategy used to win, as all strategies are. It is certainly possible to overcome this strategy. Additionally, it requires skill; did are not easily attain the rank of Warlord using this method. The harsh PvP nerf hinders the spell significantly- to be useless, perhaps. Juju spammers were certainly not the only ones to utilize the spell- it may also be effective in the removal of traps and negative charms, such as those from Efreet.
Overall, variety in strategy was neglected to be encouraged, hence the nerf. The Bad Juju spell was deemed as annoying to some, however, it remained to be a valid strategy despite the criticism. Several strategies are subjectively annoying or unfair- but there are countless ways to counteract them aside from pleading with Kingsisle for a nerf.
First off No No and No you dont like it? dont pvp with it.Infact am looking forward to them removing -90 from a spell that does 860 base damage yep you know the one efreet. that spell does way to much damage for 8 pips while giving and extensive card sorry Fire. The fact of the matter is juju spam has become the norm back in the days making match last up to 2 hrs its good they got rid of it. Do you want to talk about unfairness try storm who gets an insane bolt spells that do 10k to them? why use it if its gonna kill you? Simply because one does not care.I don't know what you call valid but spamming a minus-90 spell over and over just to watch ur opponent flee isn't a strategy its torment. As far as nerfing goes lore master should be the next target then efreet. To which after abominable snow weaver effect nerf.FFA needs a major damage cut because I notice the damage out damage sun serpent(900-1000) for 1100-1300 base damage. On single target potential damage via wise fire is out-damaging storm and that's not right. As for the conclusion wise keep pvp healthy less spamming more strategy.
Im going to have to disagree, Juju was a very centralizing strategy that was extremely difficult to take out especially with Trickster being a thing. People were achieving 70%+ win rates based on jade juju alone. While I don't think the strategy should have been wiped out completely it definitely needed a nerf. Personally I would advocate for a reduction from 25% hp to 15% hp(at max lvl). That would make juju playable while still bringing its effectiveness down enough to be realistically countered.
I play this game for fun. Juju spam is not fun to play against. If I don't have fun, I don't play. If I don't play, I don't give KI money.
Yes you can counter it, but it's still not fun. No one likes a match that takes an hour because your opponent spends the time casting juju after juju on you.
That said, with that bad of a nerf they might as well have just banned it. If you have 7000 max HP, you'll take 1750 damage when you use it, to block 90% of the next incoming hit. That means you need it to prevent at least 1750 damage just to break even on health. If we compare the damage reduction of Juju with TC weakness, the hit would have to deal almost 3000 damage before Juju pulls ahead in terms of health remaining... for 3 pips vs a 0 pip weakness. I have no desire to see Jade Juju come back, but completely gutting the spell like this is ridiculous.
I would wholeheartedly support this as long as fleeing a duel was recorded as "no decision" for both players rather than as a loss for the one who flees and a victory for the one who did not flee.
I would wholeheartedly support this as long as fleeing a duel was recorded as "no decision" for both players rather than as a loss for the one who flees and a victory for the one who did not flee.
This idea is really exploitable. You would see a mass of people fleeing right as they were about to lose a match- breaking the rank system.
I play this game for fun. Juju spam is not fun to play against. If I don't have fun, I don't play. If I don't play, I don't give KI money.
Yes you can counter it, but it's still not fun. No one likes a match that takes an hour because your opponent spends the time casting juju after juju on you.
That said, with that bad of a nerf they might as well have just banned it. If you have 7000 max HP, you'll take 1750 damage when you use it, to block 90% of the next incoming hit. That means you need it to prevent at least 1750 damage just to break even on health. If we compare the damage reduction of Juju with TC weakness, the hit would have to deal almost 3000 damage before Juju pulls ahead in terms of health remaining... for 3 pips vs a 0 pip weakness. I have no desire to see Jade Juju come back, but completely gutting the spell like this is ridiculous.
I personally agree with your analysis of the harshness of the nerf. However, I believe you muddle the purpose of PvP. Although some may seek fun within PvP, it is pure competition and an illustration of one's prowess. Spells should not be modified when they impede on quality of fun, as PvP is a battleground to attain the highest rank possible.
Im going to have to disagree, Juju was a very centralizing strategy that was extremely difficult to take out especially with Trickster being a thing. People were achieving 70%+ win rates based on jade juju alone. While I don't think the strategy should have been wiped out completely it definitely needed a nerf. Personally I would advocate for a reduction from 25% hp to 15% hp(at max lvl). That would make juju playable while still bringing its effectiveness down enough to be realistically countered.
The Jade Juju strategy does not necessarily guarantee a win. Although it may be difficult to counter- as some strategies are- this does not validate a nerf. However, I agree that Juju is not currently playable and should be modified otherwise.
The Jade Juju strategy does not necessarily guarantee a win. Although it may be difficult to counter- as some strategies are- this does not validate a nerf. However, I agree that Juju is not currently playable and should be modified otherwise.
PVP talks are real, no wonder it got nerfed I already told you guys this is just the beginning. Wiz is going to start to push less towards fixing or finding a real solution to pvp and nerf everything to the ground to accommodate wizard in free natural pve environment with more crown items more benefits more you spending yo money xD
I personally agree with your analysis of the harshness of the nerf. However, I believe you muddle the purpose of PvP. Although some may seek fun within PvP, it is pure competition and an illustration of one's prowess. Spells should not be modified when they impede on quality of fun, as PvP is a battleground to attain the highest rank possible.
If you're not having fun doing PvP, and you're not getting money, why are you doing it? You compete because it's fun. Jade Juju isn't any fun for the recipient, and I can't speak to how much fun the user gets but I can't imagine it's a lot. Spamming a "lol you can't do any damage" spell hardly requires any prowess either. Besides, who died and made you the PvP czar anyway? What gives you the authority to decide what PvP is and isn't?
I'm a big fan of it working like backlash since it lets Death wizards use blades without having them removed to deal extra damage to themselves, but 25% HP is too much.
Their was no problem with juju, the way it was. The problem was the Jade juju combined. So instead of sacrificing the Jade gear and taking it out of pvp, they changed the JUJU. Never had this problem before until Jade gear was introduced into pvp. So now that juju is not a problem. lets talk about the Jade Angels. You know the Life wizards that use Jade gear and put in wings for endless fights, if you go first no problem, but if they go first it is a long struggling match. So in reality the problem with JUJU, was the Jade gear. Which a few still hide behind for a possible win or the opponent to flee, no different.
As someone has already stated, the spell itself was not the issue. It was the Jade gear that made Bad Juju look like the problem. I've said this before on other threads and I'll say it again. Had the Jade gear never existed in the first place, Death would not have even been able to spam the spell considering our damage and pierce goes through our resist, shields and blades. Since KI was going for the spell instead of the gear, they should have at least nerfed it fairly for the Death hitters too because why would the Death hitters sacrifice so much of their health for one cast of this spell when they're already getting hit by a ton of damage by their opponent? However, I'm not sure if I would want a reverse change to this spell. What I do want is for KI to re-evaluate this nerf and change it to something fair, so that it is still usable for the hitters. The hitters should not have to be punished along with the few bad apples of the Death school.
As someone has already stated, the spell itself was not the issue. It was the Jade gear that made Bad Juju look like the problem. I've said this before on other threads and I'll say it again. Had the Jade gear never existed in the first place, Death would not have even been able to spam the spell considering our damage and pierce goes through our resist, shields and blades. Since KI was going for the spell instead of the gear, they should have at least nerfed it fairly for the Death hitters too because why would the Death hitters sacrifice so much of their health for one cast of this spell when they're already getting hit by a ton of damage by their opponent? However, I'm not sure if I would want a reverse change to this spell. What I do want is for KI to re-evaluate this nerf and change it to something fair, so that it is still usable for the hitters. The hitters should not have to be punished along with the few bad apples of the Death school.
I can agree that the jade gear helped cause the juju spam problem but unless something is done about jade gear first I don't think a change to the nerf is a good idea either. While I do feel bad for the people out there that were death hitters before the nerf it wasn't just a few bad apples that caused the juju spam problem.
If I faced 30 people in one day in pvp 10 of them were death. Out of those 10 people 9 of them would be a juju jade. Death hitters existed before the nerf yes, but they were few and far between with the bulk of people who played death whether it be in 1v1 or in a team were a juju jade.
The amount of health the nerf takes stops juju from being spammed period. If you make it any less than that then honestly you can risk it being spammed again. It's possible for someone to heal back from less than a quarter of their health taken especially if they save up to max pips before they start spamming since juju only costs 3 pips.
I can see the strategy now. Wear jade gear wait a few turns spit out a juju. Now use the extra pips to heal. Oh look you have more pips juju again. Hey look at that you have enough pips for another heal since fairy only costs 2 and you just happen to critical too. Let your opponent struggle with 2 juju now you have more pips in turns it took for them to get rid of them. Juju and repeat process all over again.
Now of course there's rng that says your opponent could get wand hits right away but chances of that are slim which is why spamming was such a problem especially if you went second. Strategy above would be horrible for someone going second.
All in all unless you take care of jade gear first then making a nerf on juju less health than 25% is a bad idea. Now if you change the pip cost instead then health could be left alone but that's really the only way it could work if jade gear is not banned or nerfed itself. Otherwise I know it can be healed off I have a friend who's stats could let him do that if not for the nerf.
Thank you all for the feedback here. I've sent it to our team to review. To prevent further potential exploit details coming out, we're going to close the thread. If you have any further concerns about a specific bug or exploit, please send a private message to us via community@kingsisle.com.
. The fact of the matter is juju spam has become the norm back in the days making match last up to 2 hrs its good they got rid of it. Do you want to talk about unfairness try storm
who gets an insane bolt spells that do 10k to them? why use it if its gonna kill you? Simply because one does not care.I don't know what you call valid but spamming a minus-90 spell over and over just to watch ur opponent flee isn't a strategy its torment. As far as nerfing goes lore master should be the next target then efreet. To which after abominable snow weaver effect nerf.FFA needs a major damage cut because I notice the damage out damage sun serpent(900-1000) for 1100-1300 base damage. On single target potential damage via wise fire is out-damaging storm and that's not right. As for the conclusion wise keep pvp healthy less spamming more strategy.
PVP talks are real, no wonder it got nerfed I already told you guys this is just the beginning. Wiz is going to start to push less towards fixing or finding a real solution to pvp and nerf everything to the ground to accommodate wizard in free natural pve environment with more crown items more benefits more you spending yo money xD
However, I'm not sure if I would want a reverse change to this spell. What I do want is for KI to re-evaluate this nerf and change it to something fair, so that it is still usable for the hitters. The hitters should not have to be punished along with the few bad apples of the Death school. 
