I have had a lot of people ask me over the years, about how to best setup the schools/classes if they were ever expanded, and here is a basic example using the death school, with some suggestions to help membership/gameplay:
1) Level Cap- For some reason a lot of mmorpg's keep making this mistake; endless leveling is not the answer. We have already doubled the original cap, and it needs to stop. Expanding the content/classes is what works best. 2) Spell Tiers- Spells should be separated into upper/lower tier spells. Only wizards primary school can use/cast upper tier spells (including treasures). This would also solve the problem of mastery amulets eroding the game, and some of the pvp unbalancing issues. 3) Utility Spells- there should also be a selection of generic utility spells that any wizard can access. All utility spells should be considered lower tier. 4) Spell Selection- This is where Wiz101 fails big time. Every wizard of every school is identical. They get 1 spell at certain levels, and that's it. There should be a selection of spells to choose from at each spell level, so everyone can play more to the style that fits them. This would also be a good way to use up those extra training points. 5) Specialty Classes- to further invigorate participation and uniqueness we need this. It enables every wizard primary school to branch out in a specialty area of that school. Ideally it should be three different specialties, each with their own strength/weaknesses. 6) Sub-classes- We already have those. They just need to add more, and increase the spell selection.
Here is an example of a death wizard. I will use the current level cap of 100 for the example:
At level 100 the death wizard has the option of branching into one of three specialty areas of that school: 1) Lich 2)Witch/Warlock 3) Soul Devourer.
* The Lich would enable the wizard to cast more deadly DD spells, and would be able to summon varied and diff types of stronger undead minions. * Warlock/Witch would be adept at curse type spells, poisons that weaken/debilitate the opponent. * Soul Devourer would be the master of life tapping-spells that damage the opponent, while healing the caster. * Each of these specialty classes would come with different strengths/weaknesses. You would gain unique strengths and abilities, and lose, and take minuses in other areas. * Each Specialty class would also gain a selection of new spells that no other wizard could learn/use. * For the death wizard who doesn't wish to specialize, he would remain the best all around for his school, not gaining the unique spells, strengths of specialty, but would also not get the disadvantages. * A suggested level range of 1-10 of specialty schools, before the level cap is maxed. Each level would be significantly harder than the last, and would also require some special requirement, etc. to attain. * This is just a basic example of how things would work. I would be happy to answer more specific questions.
I play another game that uses a setup similar to what you are suggesting, and it has had a huge impact since its inception. I would also add that a visual change/stitch should come with the newly acquired specialty to further enhance the achievement .
I play another game that uses a setup similar to what you are suggesting, and it has had a huge impact since its inception. I would also add that a visual change/stitch should come with the newly acquired specialty to further enhance the achievement .
A good idea I hadn't considered. There should also be items that are unique to each schools specialty, such as armor, wands etc.
Exalted wizards have more top-tier gear choices than ever before, between Darkmoor and duels and Khrysalis crafting and packs; but all schools are overwhelmingly similar. Same damage, global resist, critical, block, pierce, pip chance, and accuracy. Only thing that's different is the amount of HP boost, with over a thousand health between storm and fire, the two lowest health schools, and ice health being almost DOUBLE the storm.
For those of us who like to think our school has something unique to offer, this is sort of a letdown.
Furthermore, the amount of actual resist is moot because the current average high-water mark for pierce in ALL schools pretty much cancels that 48 or so resist.
The linear "tech tree" of school spells is such that regardless of what you train, you end up spending points on some chaffy spells you don't use. If spells were arranged into parallel "tech branches" of the main school tree, I could train up the one branch with the types of spells I would be most likely to use, and not burn points on spells I will never use. Ice to tower should give me a range of defensive spells from the most basic - snow shield - up through volcanic, tower and maybe onwards to ice armor, then a higher tier of defensive spells that only Ice can train: frozen armor, steal ward, legion shield, etc. If I want blizzard I can train beetle etc. Sun school is a great example of this - you can go acc/pierce, or you can go damage.
The limits of a turn-based card game make some types of player behavior and some types of damage/healing more efficient and effective than others. All schools should have one example of the best-practices type of damage, and the best-practices type of healing. Dungeons and cheating bosses should not single out any school as unemployable due to the nature of their attacks, heals, or buffs. *coughAphroditecough*
I have had a lot of people ask me over the years, about how to best setup the schools/classes if they were ever expanded, and here is a basic example using the death school, with some suggestions to help membership/gameplay:
1) Level Cap- For some reason a lot of mmorpg's keep making this mistake; endless leveling is not the answer. We have already doubled the original cap, and it needs to stop. Expanding the content/classes is what works best. 2) Spell Tiers- Spells should be separated into upper/lower tier spells. Only wizards primary school can use/cast upper tier spells (including treasures). This would also solve the problem of mastery amulets eroding the game, and some of the pvp unbalancing issues. 3) Utility Spells- there should also be a selection of generic utility spells that any wizard can access. All utility spells should be considered lower tier. 4) Spell Selection- This is where Wiz101 fails big time. Every wizard of every school is identical. They get 1 spell at certain levels, and that's it. There should be a selection of spells to choose from at each spell level, so everyone can play more to the style that fits them. This would also be a good way to use up those extra training points. 5) Specialty Classes- to further invigorate participation and uniqueness we need this. It enables every wizard primary school to branch out in a specialty area of that school. Ideally it should be three different specialties, each with their own strength/weaknesses. 6) Sub-classes- We already have those. They just need to add more, and increase the spell selection.
Here is an example of a death wizard. I will use the current level cap of 100 for the example:
At level 100 the death wizard has the option of branching into one of three specialty areas of that school: 1) Lich 2)Witch/Warlock 3) Soul Devourer.
* The Lich would enable the wizard to cast more deadly DD spells, and would be able to summon varied and diff types of stronger undead minions. * Warlock/Witch would be adept at curse type spells, poisons that weaken/debilitate the opponent. * Soul Devourer would be the master of life tapping-spells that damage the opponent, while healing the caster. * Each of these specialty classes would come with different strengths/weaknesses. You would gain unique strengths and abilities, and lose, and take minuses in other areas. * Each Specialty class would also gain a selection of new spells that no other wizard could learn/use. * For the death wizard who doesn't wish to specialize, he would remain the best all around for his school, not gaining the unique spells, strengths of specialty, but would also not get the disadvantages. * A suggested level range of 1-10 of specialty schools, before the level cap is maxed. Each level would be significantly harder than the last, and would also require some special requirement, etc. to attain. * This is just a basic example of how things would work. I would be happy to answer more specific questions.
These ideas seem more applicable to action combat mmorpgs and less to wiz unless they are more specific. I do understand the basis of these ideas and have jot down notes about wiz over the years. I've seen these concepts in other mmorpgs played. 1) Level Cap: I'm not sure what is meant by "a suggested ... specialty schools, before the level cap is maxed." I think of the level cap as the main source of progression and beginning of the "endgame content." If the level cap is taken away, a new progression system can start with those specialty classes you mentioned. How would it work? Simply completing a "special requirement" (a spell quest) is not enough. I'd suggest an exp based system for spells. For example, once you progress the story you can unlock a new spell based on your new specialty class. The more you use that spell, the stronger the base gets until you reach it's max exp. 2) Spells Tiers: "Only wizards .... use/cast upper tier spells (including treasures)'??? If a wizard has a specialty class, they cannot use upper tier spells? I would like to see mastery amulets be removed from PVP, but to be fair, not everyone does PVP in the first place. As they already exist, they shouldn't be removed from the game entirely. There are people who play this game very casually, and rely on mastery amulets to be versatile. 3) Utility spells. Did you mean side effects spells of the primary schools that does not apply damage or something else relating to the astral schools? 4 + 5) Spell selection. Specialty classes. My biggest concern about these two is that they shouldn't fully overlap. Also, if you pick one spell at certain level out of maybe three spells, you shouldn't need to spend training points to learn the other two if all three are from the same school. Though, I agree with the ability to choose spells. Specialty classes need to be alot more specific. For example, a lich could have spells that does extra damage to undead enemies. 6) agreed. out of chars.
These ideas seem more applicable to action combat mmorpgs and less to wiz unless they are more specific. I do understand the basis of these ideas and have jot down notes about wiz over the years. I've seen these concepts in other mmorpgs played. 1) Level Cap: I'm not sure what is meant by "a suggested ... specialty schools, before the level cap is maxed." I think of the level cap as the main source of progression and beginning of the "endgame content." If the level cap is taken away, a new progression system can start with those specialty classes you mentioned. How would it work? Simply completing a "special requirement" (a spell quest) is not enough. I'd suggest an exp based system for spells. For example, once you progress the story you can unlock a new spell based on your new specialty class. The more you use that spell, the stronger the base gets until you reach it's max exp. 2) Spells Tiers: "Only wizards .... use/cast upper tier spells (including treasures)'??? If a wizard has a specialty class, they cannot use upper tier spells? I would like to see mastery amulets be removed from PVP, but to be fair, not everyone does PVP in the first place. As they already exist, they shouldn't be removed from the game entirely. There are people who play this game very casually, and rely on mastery amulets to be versatile. 3) Utility spells. Did you mean side effects spells of the primary schools that does not apply damage or something else relating to the astral schools? 4 + 5) Spell selection. Specialty classes. My biggest concern about these two is that they shouldn't fully overlap. Also, if you pick one spell at certain level out of maybe three spells, you shouldn't need to spend training points to learn the other two if all three are from the same school. Though, I agree with the ability to choose spells. Specialty classes need to be alot more specific. For example, a lich could have spells that does extra damage to undead enemies. 6) agreed. out of chars.
Forgive my lack of details, I had to be vague to conform to the character limits for written.
1)Specialty classes would be based on a suggested 1-10 level tier. Each tier progressively harder than the rest, and would also include some special requirements to advance to next level, along with the standard experience that normally accompanies levels. *** When I was referring to a level cap is needed, it meant that a lot of companies continue the same old grind of doing the standard content, raise the level, get the spell etc., and repeat this endlessly, and that simply doesn't work after awhile. A specialty class would change up the mundane grind, and hopefully invigorate interest, and member participation. 2) I wasn't suggesting removing mastery amulets, as a lot of people have purchased them with real money. It was incredibly naïve for KI to introduce them, but we are stuck with them now. What I was suggesting is a way to reinforce a schools primary school, instead of letting things like mastery amulets erode them. In other words, Only primary schools can use a upper tier spell from their school. You could still use mastery amulets for lower tier spells though. 3)Utility spells- A utility spell is a sort of "general" spell that has no real alignment to any school. They would be basic lower tier spells, that any school of wizard could select from when they decide to use excess training points or such on spells. A good example of a utility spell is Reshuffle. It is currently aligned with Balance, but it really has nothing to do with that, or any school. There should be many spells such as this in Utility. 4 & 5) They would not overlap. A specialty would have unique spells/abilities that is not available to any other wizard. They would also come at a price, to attain the abilities and spells, you would lose strengths and spells in other areas. It is all about adding quality and uniqueness to this game, and it is sorely needed.
Exalted wizards have more top-tier gear choices than ever before, between Darkmoor and duels and Khrysalis crafting and packs; but all schools are overwhelmingly similar. Same damage, global resist, critical, block, pierce, pip chance, and accuracy. Only thing that's different is the amount of HP boost, with over a thousand health between storm and fire, the two lowest health schools, and ice health being almost DOUBLE the storm.
For those of us who like to think our school has something unique to offer, this is sort of a letdown.
Furthermore, the amount of actual resist is moot because the current average high-water mark for pierce in ALL schools pretty much cancels that 48 or so resist.
The linear "tech tree" of school spells is such that regardless of what you train, you end up spending points on some chaffy spells you don't use. If spells were arranged into parallel "tech branches" of the main school tree, I could train up the one branch with the types of spells I would be most likely to use, and not burn points on spells I will never use. Ice to tower should give me a range of defensive spells from the most basic - snow shield - up through volcanic, tower and maybe onwards to ice armor, then a higher tier of defensive spells that only Ice can train: frozen armor, steal ward, legion shield, etc. If I want blizzard I can train beetle etc. Sun school is a great example of this - you can go acc/pierce, or you can go damage.
The limits of a turn-based card game make some types of player behavior and some types of damage/healing more efficient and effective than others. All schools should have one example of the best-practices type of damage, and the best-practices type of healing. Dungeons and cheating bosses should not single out any school as unemployable due to the nature of their attacks, heals, or buffs. *coughAphroditecough*
Forgive my lack of details, I had to be vague to conform to the character limits for written.
1)Specialty classes would be based on a suggested 1-10 level tier. Each tier progressively harder than the rest, and would also include some special requirements to advance to next level, along with the standard experience that normally accompanies levels. *** When I was referring to a level cap is needed, it meant that a lot of companies continue the same old grind of doing the standard content, raise the level, get the spell etc., and repeat this endlessly, and that simply doesn't work after awhile. A specialty class would change up the mundane grind, and hopefully invigorate interest, and member participation. 2) I wasn't suggesting removing mastery amulets, as a lot of people have purchased them with real money. It was incredibly naïve for KI to introduce them, but we are stuck with them now. What I was suggesting is a way to reinforce a schools primary school, instead of letting things like mastery amulets erode them. In other words, Only primary schools can use a upper tier spell from their school. You could still use mastery amulets for lower tier spells though. 3)Utility spells- A utility spell is a sort of "general" spell that has no real alignment to any school. They would be basic lower tier spells, that any school of wizard could select from when they decide to use excess training points or such on spells. A good example of a utility spell is Reshuffle. It is currently aligned with Balance, but it really has nothing to do with that, or any school. There should be many spells such as this in Utility. 4 & 5) They would not overlap. A specialty would have unique spells/abilities that is not available to any other wizard. They would also come at a price, to attain the abilities and spells, you would lose strengths and spells in other areas. It is all about adding quality and uniqueness to this game, and it is sorely needed.
1) If I interpret this correctly (correct me if I'm wrong) it would still be gaining "levels". There could be specialty classes while retaining the level cap concept. That is, unless these "tiers" serves a purpose that I am not seeing. 2) What constitutes a lower/ higher tier level spell? Also, you don't mean specialty classes are not exempt from this because they are not primary? 3) I understand what you are saying. However, there should be a mix of these spells as utility (no specific school attached) and school specific. 4 & 5) There are many ways to think of this. If a wizard has a specialty class, to a degree, they would loose the spells of their primary school? That's what I mean by "overlap".
1) If I interpret this correctly (correct me if I'm wrong) it would still be gaining "levels". There could be specialty classes while retaining the level cap concept. That is, unless these "tiers" serves a purpose that I am not seeing. 2) What constitutes a lower/ higher tier level spell? Also, you don't mean specialty classes are not exempt from this because they are not primary? 3) I understand what you are saying. However, there should be a mix of these spells as utility (no specific school attached) and school specific. 4 & 5) There are many ways to think of this. If a wizard has a specialty class, to a degree, they would loose the spells of their primary school? That's what I mean by "overlap".
1) Yes, it would be levels or ranks, I prefer the latter to differentiate it. The emphasis though would be that you had attained something special to set you apart, and add uniqueness to your wizard from others. Here is another example that hopefully clarifies it better than I originally explained: At level 100 the death wizard stops leveling in standard. He then has a choice to make in specialty. He can rank from 1-10 in one of 3 specialty areas, or gain rank in death school. So you could have a death who is level 100, but rank 5 in Lich, or 100 in death and rank 3 in warlock, or 100 in death and rank 5 in the general death school. It affords each school one of 4 possible options to stay in the general classification, or to branch off in 3 different ranked areas of specialty training. Does that explain it better? 2) That would be a simple judgement call as to the divide between them, but it is at core based on strength, so in wizard it would prolly be pip cost. So an example would be 4 pips and below are lower, above are higher. 3) Yes these would be an assortment/mix for any school to use. 4) They would not lose any spell they have attained, but some types of spells would now be at a disadvantage based on their specialty. A Warlock who casts a curse type spell. would be stronger than one cast by a lich, as his would also be weaker, etc.
1) Yes, it would be levels or ranks, I prefer the latter to differentiate it. The emphasis though would be that you had attained something special to set you apart, and add uniqueness to your wizard from others. Here is another example that hopefully clarifies it better than I originally explained: At level 100 the death wizard stops leveling in standard. He then has a choice to make in specialty. He can rank from 1-10 in one of 3 specialty areas, or gain rank in death school. So you could have a death who is level 100, but rank 5 in Lich, or 100 in death and rank 3 in warlock, or 100 in death and rank 5 in the general death school. It affords each school one of 4 possible options to stay in the general classification, or to branch off in 3 different ranked areas of specialty training. Does that explain it better? 2) That would be a simple judgement call as to the divide between them, but it is at core based on strength, so in wizard it would prolly be pip cost. So an example would be 4 pips and below are lower, above are higher. 3) Yes these would be an assortment/mix for any school to use. 4) They would not lose any spell they have attained, but some types of spells would now be at a disadvantage based on their specialty. A Warlock who casts a curse type spell. would be stronger than one cast by a lich, as his would also be weaker, etc.
Superb post Intrepidatius, and I agree almost entirely with it, minus the level cap part, which is frankly a minor issue. I am interested in your sub-genre suggestions for the Balance school, as their specialty is (well, is supposed to be anyway) the mastery of all things, which means that specialty classes for them are not as cut-and dried as the other schools'. (Note: I wrote sub-genre, not sub-class, to prevent confusion with the ,,, and schools, as a distinction should be made between the two. You get the idea).
Spell tiers, including TC's, would indeed prevent mastery amulets from ever becoming a truly unfair advantage, although we obviously disagree on whether off-school mastery should taken a step further.
Unfortunately, the changes that you are suggesting are VERY extensive, and will almost certainly not be implemented before the next world comes (if it comes, LOL, it's been a while), due to the drastic rewriting of code that would have to take place to incorporate said changes. Even if the code is object oriented (which I think it is), that amount of tweaking is no small feat.
Furthermore, I would suggest that the wizards who choose to specialize further in their respective school (and not remain an all-around player) should be able to change it back if they find they dislike it, however many times they want, much like we can buy back training points currently. (Hopefully better, as 10,000+ Crowns to retrain 2 spells at Exalted is such a con).
Finally, since we're talking about updates, there should be an option where you can simply buy a max-level wizard of any school if you have at least one max already. Nobody wants to waste 6+ months to a year of their life needlessly leveling up their wizard. I don't care how much I have to pay for it, this needs to happen, now!
I will probably post further about that, but anyway, great suggestions!
Superb post Intrepidatius, and I agree almost entirely with it, minus the level cap part, which is frankly a minor issue. I am interested in your sub-genre suggestions for the Balance school, as their specialty is (well, is supposed to be anyway) the mastery of all things, which means that specialty classes for them are not as cut-and dried as the other schools'. (Note: I wrote sub-genre, not sub-class, to prevent confusion with the ,,, and schools, as a distinction should be made between the two. You get the idea).
Spell tiers, including TC's, would indeed prevent mastery amulets from ever becoming a truly unfair advantage, although we obviously disagree on whether off-school mastery should taken a step further.
Unfortunately, the changes that you are suggesting are VERY extensive, and will almost certainly not be implemented before the next world comes (if it comes, LOL, it's been a while), due to the drastic rewriting of code that would have to take place to incorporate said changes. Even if the code is object oriented (which I think it is), that amount of tweaking is no small feat.
Furthermore, I would suggest that the wizards who choose to specialize further in their respective school (and not remain an all-around player) should be able to change it back if they find they dislike it, however many times they want, much like we can buy back training points currently. (Hopefully better, as 10,000+ Crowns to retrain 2 spells at Exalted is such a con).
Finally, since we're talking about updates, there should be an option where you can simply buy a max-level wizard of any school if you have at least one max already. Nobody wants to waste 6+ months to a year of their life needlessly leveling up their wizard. I don't care how much I have to pay for it, this needs to happen, now!
I will probably post further about that, but anyway, great suggestions!
Thanks, and here is some suggestions regarding your questions/concerns:
1)As for the Balance question, I had already considered that, but was too lazy to list it, but since you asked: They are already setup with traditional balance, elemental affiliated, and spiritual affiliated, and therein lies your specialties. They would also need another one to match the 3 tiers of other schools, and my suggestion would be a tier of the sub-classes that are now available. Not one of them, but an enhanced mastery of them all. 2)The changes are extensive, but I think its needed for Wizard101 to stay afloat. If they don't drastically add to/enhance the content, another game is going to come along and steal their thunder. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Complacency is absolutely deadly in the business of mmorpg's. Wizard may have been the first to pioneer this special kind of off-shoot, but it certainly won't be the last. 3) I would assume that these could be retrained just like any other via Mr. Lincoln./crowns. 4) As for as the ability to buy max level, or gain levels via crowns and such, I have never been a fan of this, but I will also concede that they have become successful at variations of this in many mmorpg's. 5) As for the level cap.....It is not so much an issue in itself, as it is right now, the only recourse we have available, and that becomes weak, and tiresome after awhile. The suggestions I have listed are simply a sample of how to shake up the traditional grind, to invoke interest and participation. As I said before, If KI doesn't do it, some other game will, and the Spiral will become a fond memory, well before its time.
I think this would be very helpful. At some point the high level could get overwhelming, so once you branch out, you could reset to level one, only as the name of whatever branch you chose. Health could still stay the same, but now all spells and armor you could get would be based on the path you chose.
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schools, as a distinction should be made between the two. You get the idea).