I am a casual gamer and I usually don't bother to make posts on message boards, but when I saw that guardian spirit had changed (suddenly and without warning, it seemed to me). I had to come here and find some way to voice my displeasure. What reason is there to use this spell now? It does not allow players to keep their pips, shields, blades, etc. It does not allow the player to continue their turn as normal. Now it does not even heal very much. My Life character has approximately 4000 health. I used guardian spirit. I came back to life with 600 health: completely defenseless. I was killed in the next round. Yes, I could boost my healing with gear and other spells, while sacrificing most of my other stats: but shouldn't a spell received at this point be effective on its own and not dependent on gear to make it worth while?
One of the things that upsets me is that when these changes are made, I have to go searching and searching online and sifting through message board posts to get to the bottom of it. Why was this change made? When did it happen? According to some posts I've read it was because of PVP players complaining. For all I know that might be completely wrong. Is there any word from the folks at KingsIsle as to why the change was made? I see a mention of it in the update notes. That is all. When these things happen I would like more of an official explanation. I don't want to have to make assumptions.
I feel like I am part of what must be a large group of players who spend their time playing the game and are generally satisfied with most things. We are not heavily involved in the message board community that exists outside the game itself. We are not constantly checking the message boards here or on Wizard101 Central to see if there is some kind of dispute within the community. Our silence should not be mistaken for apathy though. I am making this post now simply because it is the last straw and it seems that the people at KingsIsle only pay attention to the loud and opinionated.
Getting back to the point: this spell had made it past the test realm into the live realm. As someone who participated in the test realm, what reason had I to believe that it was in danger of being changed after it went live? I would prefer that KingsIsle to give all players an opportunity to weigh in on such changes just like they do in the test realm, rather than assuming that the people who post on message boards represent everyone.
Poll the players. Make an announcement. Do not make announcements just here on the message boards, make an announcement in the game. I would be perfectly willing to have a message from Ambrose or Mr. Lincoln (or whoever) pop up on the side of my screen inviting me to go online and weigh in on an issue. I don't think that I should be expected to spend time that I could be playing the game watching the message boards to see what PVP vs. PVE issues arise. I don't think that I should be expected to argue with other players to make sure that my opinion is heard. If majority rule is going to determine the way things are done in this game, lets make sure it really is the majority.
What a great post! I post here and on Central. I follow both boards fairly closely.
Recently with this Guardian Spirit change I have seen more PvE players speaking up. I went YES at last the silent majority is voicing their opinion. I tend to post for the average casual player.
I too wish KI would be more forthcoming with information to their players. I understand some things are indeed "trade secrets". But, an explanation of decisions like this brings clarity to us all.
When I see players like yourself and Queenlybluebean make posts about a spell change it reinforces to me the need for KI to communicate and to realize there indeed is a vocal minority. It also shows me there is a need for more of a divide between PvP and PvE.
I also agree with your suggestions to get more of the players involved. I think that it should be open to Crowns Players who qualify for Test.
In the PvP section, you can see that there are huge amounts of complaints about Guardian Spirit. When I was aware about this spell coming out, one of the things that I was thinking was that so many people were gonna be complaining about it and it might changed one day. That is exactly what happened. Guardian Spirit was in the Test Realm. On the message, boards it at a certain time it could be seen that the test realm was open Guardian Spirit was up to be changed. In case you are not aware Detonate was changed as well. It can no longer remove over time heals. I am not happy, because it worried me about how much complaints from common players seem to be able to influence the game. There are situations that I even hear many of these complains where organised. The sad thing is that it seems to be that it is hard to play this game without certain amounts of worry about something nice in the game being changed soon or later. I have an idea in this regards though. See this topic if you want to take a look at this idea. https://www.wizard101.com/posts/list/49441.ftl
I absolutely agree. If a spell is going to be changed it should at least be done before it hits the live realm. Isn't that what the test realm is for? I had just spent my time getting Guardian Spirit for my life on live when they changed it. Now it sits in my deck and will never be used because it's not worth the pip cost anymore.
I agree also. Guardian Spirit should be changed back. Once a spell is on the live realm, it should be left alone no matter what. It is unfair to change a spell once someone owns it. In a way, it's like indian giving.
I absolutely agree. If a spell is going to be changed it should at least be done before it hits the live realm. Isn't that what the test realm is for? I had just spent my time getting Guardian Spirit for my life on live when they changed it. Now it sits in my deck and will never be used because it's not worth the pip cost anymore.
Mary
It was in Test Realm. There was a tag notifying players on the message boards that changes were to be made. However lots of players did not notice it seems probably because it was not in the test realm for very long, the test realm was not announced as open in through the login panel and it players had to read though the updates carefully.
I am a casual gamer and I usually don't bother to make posts on message boards, but when I saw that guardian spirit had changed (suddenly and without warning, it seemed to me). I had to come here and find some way to voice my displeasure. What reason is there to use this spell now? It does not allow players to keep their pips, shields, blades, etc. It does not allow the player to continue their turn as normal. Now it does not even heal very much. My Life character has approximately 4000 health. I used guardian spirit. I came back to life with 600 health: completely defenseless. I was killed in the next round. Yes, I could boost my healing with gear and other spells, while sacrificing most of my other stats: but shouldn't a spell received at this point be effective on its own and not dependent on gear to make it worth while?
One of the things that upsets me is that when these changes are made, I have to go searching and searching online and sifting through message board posts to get to the bottom of it. Why was this change made? When did it happen? According to some posts I've read it was because of PVP players complaining. For all I know that might be completely wrong. Is there any word from the folks at KingsIsle as to why the change was made? I see a mention of it in the update notes. That is all. When these things happen I would like more of an official explanation. I don't want to have to make assumptions.
I feel like I am part of what must be a large group of players who spend their time playing the game and are generally satisfied with most things. We are not heavily involved in the message board community that exists outside the game itself. We are not constantly checking the message boards here or on Wizard101 Central to see if there is some kind of dispute within the community. Our silence should not be mistaken for apathy though. I am making this post now simply because it is the last straw and it seems that the people at KingsIsle only pay attention to the loud and opinionated.
Getting back to the point: this spell had made it past the test realm into the live realm. As someone who participated in the test realm, what reason had I to believe that it was in danger of being changed after it went live? I would prefer that KingsIsle to give all players an opportunity to weigh in on such changes just like they do in the test realm, rather than assuming that the people who post on message boards represent everyone.
Poll the players. Make an announcement. Do not make announcements just here on the message boards, make an announcement in the game. I would be perfectly willing to have a message from Ambrose or Mr. Lincoln (or whoever) pop up on the side of my screen inviting me to go online and weigh in on an issue. I don't think that I should be expected to spend time that I could be playing the game watching the message boards to see what PVP vs. PVE issues arise. I don't think that I should be expected to argue with other players to make sure that my opinion is heard. If majority rule is going to determine the way things are done in this game, lets make sure it really is the majority.
try getting athams or rings with heal boosts those will help and some wont sacrifice your damage and other stats for the heal bonus
Reading through post regarding this spell did sway me to ask why obvious problem spells like this even went through the test realm unscathed. It looks like a big oversight on KI to let people taste guardian spell then suddenly snag it out of your hands leaving you like a baby who lost his favorite toy.
I never fancied this spell because of the casting cost, but nerfing it without an explanation sure is bothersome. Can you not just click an option on the settings to nerf spells when doing PvP or an an auto nerf when you are in Pvp then flip back into normal once you are aut of the arena? PvP players can battle with or without weakened spells as an option too in the process.
It was in Test Realm. There was a tag notifying players on the message boards that changes were to be made. However lots of players did not notice it seems probably because it was not in the test realm for very long, the test realm was not announced as open in through the login panel and it players had to read though the updates carefully.
Yes it was, the second time around is when they changed it. It went through the first test realm for Avalon just fine. It was released to the live realm (I earned it in both) and then changed in the 2nd test realm (the one with the new house) because of an outcry from PVP.
There is also an outcry from PVP because of the crafted ice gear resist. I crafted this gear for my ice and I don't PVP. If they change this gear after many people (I'm sure I'm not alone) have went through the time and effort (and gold!) to craft it, well I might also be rethinking Wizard for the first time ever. That would make me very sad, because I love this game. I love the questing, the housing, the pets and the gardening. I participate fully in every aspect of the game except for PVP.
I never thought I would ever reverse my thinking on something like this, but this time I have to. GS was not OP for PvE, but it is OP for PvP.
I have had time to go back and look at several things. The problem is not just PvP. Some of the problems are in the PvE part of the game.
Before anyone gets upset, please read all of this and if you were playing before CL came out, stop and think about how the game was reasonably well balanced. We did not have that many changes to spells because PvPers thought they were OP. There were a couple of spells that did get adjusted, but it was not a major issue. There has never been the intensity put forth in a debate or discussion as we have seen because of GS. Debating is fine but in needs to be in a manner that can resolve the issue to the satisfaction of BOTH sides.
Now, after we finished DS, many of us that PvE started requesting harder bosses and challenges. KI gave us just what we asked for and in the Process gave us stronger spells for those same bosses and dungeons. By doing this, there was a line drawn between PvP and PvE. This should never have happened. Most don't and won't see that this threw PvP out of balance, but it is also throwing PvE out of balance. Both groups should be a community as a whole, the way it was when PvP was added to the game in 2009. I did do some PvP at that time and have thought about going back many times. But, since CL was added to the game, some of the problems that have some up are creating a very wide rift between PvP and PvE that should not be there.
One of the ideas that has come up (and this is not mine) is to scale the bosses back and bring them back in line with the forefront of the game. In other words, from and including CL through Avalon, things need to be brought back into balance for the game as a whole. I don't think there would need to be anymore spells changes as most that have caused problems have already been changes. The dungeons that are specifically set up for level challenges such as the WaterWorks would not be touched. Those should remain as they already are.
Yes, there are problems in PvP and there are PvP social groups that are working very hard to try to get them resolved. Some of those problems also require a fix from KI and from some of what I have heard KI is working on it, but it will take some time and TESTING to get them in place.
Those of us that have been regular players since this game came out, should be able to see the imbalance that has occurred. Unfortunately, there are many of us that don't PvP and don't realize just how much out of balance the game has become. As long as we can play through the game and beat those bosses and dungeons we think everything is fine, BUT it is not.
As a community, we need to try to come up with some ideas that don't take a major overhaul. KI has in the past made adjustments to bosses and a few of the story line dungeons. Things like this would be a start in bringing the game back into balance. Our wizards are supposed to grow stronger as we advance, but not by LEAPS AND BOUNDS and this is what has been happening. By bringing it back in balance, we will have more fun and a lot less nerfing of spells and gear.
I for one, would like to see some changes made and be able to go back to PvP again. I would like to see the community work together again to keep the game balanced and fun and SAFE for everyone, especially the young kids that play.
I will agree that PVP needs to be fixed. I do not agree that the PVE bosses need to be scaled back. I do think they should make the major cheating bosses like Morganthe and Jabberwock available in side quest and not part of the main storyline. They present a challenge that is wanted by the majority of the PVE community, but not all. What fun is the game if it's all easy? If they scale the bosses back that's just what it will be.
I have done practice PVP a couple of times and did not have a good experience (not losing, but attitude of opposing teams) so I decided to not pursue that portion of the game. I really don't know how they can or plan to fix PVP. I've always thought it should be entirely separate from the regular game as spells that help a lot in PVE seems to cause such issues in PVP.
What upset me about the nerfing of GS is that it was done after it hit live realm. Avalon was in the test realm plenty long enough to decide if the spell was overpowered. I personally don't think it was considering the pip cost attached to it.
I will agree that PVP needs to be fixed. I do not agree that the PVE bosses need to be scaled back. I do think they should make the major cheating bosses like Morganthe and Jabberwock available in side quest and not part of the main storyline. They present a challenge that is wanted by the majority of the PVE community, but not all. What fun is the game if it's all easy? If they scale the bosses back that's just what it will be.
I have done practice PVP a couple of times and did not have a good experience (not losing, but attitude of opposing teams) so I decided to not pursue that portion of the game. I really don't know how they can or plan to fix PVP. I've always thought it should be entirely separate from the regular game as spells that help a lot in PVE seems to cause such issues in PVP.
What upset me about the nerfing of GS is that it was done after it hit live realm. Avalon was in the test realm plenty long enough to decide if the spell was overpowered. I personally don't think it was considering the pip cost attached to it.
When I say scaling back I mean that. BUT I would like to the NPC's play more like we do, blade, trap use strategy. High pips, high health and cheats don't represent challenge to me.
I don't like cheats because I see post after post of people not willing to do cheating bosses and dungeons with Menu Chatters. There is no way to communicate with them. They pay to play just like me. Then they get stuck because menu chat was not updated to deal with cheats.
I agree with GS being nerfed after it came to live. I don't think that should have happened. People must not have been PvPing or it would have been found. To me that suggests they were testing content and did not have time to get to the Arena.
I will agree that PVP needs to be fixed. I do not agree that the PVE bosses need to be scaled back. I do think they should make the major cheating bosses like Morganthe and Jabberwock available in side quest and not part of the main storyline. They present a challenge that is wanted by the majority of the PVE community, but not all. What fun is the game if it's all easy? If they scale the bosses back that's just what it will be.
I have done practice PVP a couple of times and did not have a good experience (not losing, but attitude of opposing teams) so I decided to not pursue that portion of the game. I really don't know how they can or plan to fix PVP. I've always thought it should be entirely separate from the regular game as spells that help a lot in PVE seems to cause such issues in PVP.
What upset me about the nerfing of GS is that it was done after it hit live realm. Avalon was in the test realm plenty long enough to decide if the spell was overpowered. I personally don't think it was considering the pip cost attached to it.
PvP can't be fixed unless PvE is fixed as well. It is the only way to bring back the balance of the game as a whole. PvE took some giant leaps with the last 3 worlds on the Morganthe arc. In doing so, this left PvP behind therefore creating spells that did not work for both. If it doesn't work for both, its broken.
The scaling back on some of the bosses and dungeons would not be major changes. Most of it would only be minor adjustments in health and the number of pips they actually start with. No big deal. KI has done this in the past and it can be done again to put the game back on a gradual incline in difficulty rather than the huge leaps we have seen.
Morganthe IS the storyline. She can't be moved to a side quest. As for the challenges being wanted by the Majority of the PvE community, that is questionable. Yes, we do want challenges but, they have to be within reason. Remember, this is a Family game rated E10+. Many young players get discouraged and frustrated easily. The challenges can't be impossible, but at the same time they do need to be difficult. No, as we progress through the spiral, there does need to be increasing difficulty and challenges but not to the point that it unbalances the game as a whole and this is what has happened.
I have done PvP too and would really like to go back. Yes, there is problems with the attitude of SOME of those players and there is a large number of PvP players working to try to get those issues remedied. PvP and PvE were never intended to be separated and they weren't until CL was added. That is when the problems started and have escalated since. If we can come together as the community it is supposed to be, we can re-balance the game and make if fun for everyone again and especially those that play as a family.
Yes, I was upset about GS too, but have since had the time to take a look at the repercussions. If I were to take one of my wizards back to the arena, do I really want to have to face that spell? NO. Do I really want to spend hours fighting that spell wielding opponent especially hours that I can't take the time for? NO. Is it OP in PvE? NO, but it is in PvP and that causes unbalance.
As for how long Avalon was in test? Yes, it was longer that most but the size (15 areas) warranted it to be. Most of the players that PvP did not have enough time to really test those spells in Test before it went live. This is not the first time that has happened, but it is the worst that has been argued. Granted it should not have happened but it did, now we have to fix this AS A COMMUNITY. There have beens suggestions that KI set the spells up to be tested in PvP FIRST, then open test to the sub and crowns players. This may actually be a good idea. Fix it BEFORE, it gets to the warring stage on the boards. Put the new worlds in Test for a longer time frame and fix more issues before it goes live. There will always be some bugs when it does go live, but we can stop the nerfing if caught before going live. PvP players are in reality the best ones to test this, not PvE. PvE players never see a spell that is OP. If this is fixed, then the adjustments needed to balance the game can be made with little of no problems in the game.
I will agree that PVP needs to be fixed. I do not agree that the PVE bosses need to be scaled back. I do think they should make the major cheating bosses like Morganthe and Jabberwock available in side quest and not part of the main storyline. They present a challenge that is wanted by the majority of the PVE community, but not all. What fun is the game if it's all easy? If they scale the bosses back that's just what it will be.
I have done practice PVP a couple of times and did not have a good experience (not losing, but attitude of opposing teams) so I decided to not pursue that portion of the game. I really don't know how they can or plan to fix PVP. I've always thought it should be entirely separate from the regular game as spells that help a lot in PVE seems to cause such issues in PVP.
What upset me about the nerfing of GS is that it was done after it hit live realm. Avalon was in the test realm plenty long enough to decide if the spell was overpowered. I personally don't think it was considering the pip cost attached to it.
When I say scaling back I mean that. BUT I would like to the NPC's play more like we do, blade, trap use strategy. High pips, high health and cheats don't represent challenge to me.
I don't like cheats because I see post after post of people not willing to do cheating bosses and dungeons with Menu Chatters. There is no way to communicate with them. They pay to play just like me. Then they get stuck because menu chat was not updated to deal with cheats.
I agree with GS being nerfed after it came to live. I don't think that should have happened. People must not have been PvPing or it would have been found. To me that suggests they were testing content and did not have time to get to the Arena.
Megan
Megan
For the amount of time that Avalon was in Test, you would think that a lot of the problems would have been found before live. At the time it was in test, there were a lot of players school age and college that were trying to get through Finals and getting ready for graduation. This prevented a lot of them from spending the time in the game and especially in PvP to test those spells. I had so hoped KI would not release Avalon until at least Memorial Day weekend. By that time many would have had time to test in PvP.
Most of us agree that spells should not be nerfed, but also in retrospect, if this had been fixed before going live, everything would have been ok. No arguing or debating what it should or should not be.
On one post that I read (and don't remember where or who said it) when a new world is getting ready for test, it may be a good idea for KI to set up the PvP arena first with the spells according to required level and let the PvPer test them before test is open to the general community. Make the adjustments on those and on the bosses and dungeons as needed to balance then open test to find any other bugs and glitches.
I don't mind and occassional cheating boss now and then, but it has gotten out of hand as well. The health and pips for even street mobs has taken a bigger jump than I would have expected. Both of these areas could probably use a few MINOR adjustments as well.
Megan, you are right once again and I thank you. Menu chatters do get left holding the bag so to speak. It is impossible to communicate with them even if you are willing to help them, you can't give them the guidance that will help them learn the mechanics of the game better. You can't say wait, this boss cheats and we need to do this if we want to beat him. I understand and approve that KI is doing everything humanly possible to protect our young players, but I do think there should be a way to communicate with them in the INSTANCE areas.
We do have a lot of areas to work on and as you stated in another post, Gear is another issue. Worlds are getting harder, gear is weaker, and now everything is out of balance. Well, not everything, but enough.
