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darthjt wrote:

Shiningfantasia wrote:

darthjt wrote:

You all having these irrational issues with these packs is what is ruining the Message boards. Think about it, is it really ruinining the game? Are these spells really Must Haves? If you dont have it, the game is over, no point? Get a grip. Either spend the money or dont, buy the tc versions if you dont want to spend the cash.

You must either be a Storm, Fire, Death, or an Ice wizard. You don't care because you are not presented with new permanent spells.

The POINT is, you now have to pay in order to COMPLETE your character.

Subscribers no longer pay to play, but pay to grow their character on top of it. Whether the spell is a must have or makes or brakes a game is irrelevant. The fact that it is something you have to buy with cash IS. I am a Myth wizard. My Myth wizard is forever incomplete and missing a spell until I pay cash.

As a matter of fact, I did. LOTS of it. I am even amazed at how much I spent. I spent less on getting Blood Raven, and even less than that on getting full outfit from Nightmare pack. I did NOT get the Myth spell. I got the Life spell, but that is not of my school to begin with, and that does certainly not complete my Myth wizard.

I don't mind spending a little money on packs. I don't mind at all. But I do mind if I have to spend LOTS and LOTS of money on something that completes my character. Yea, Myth wizard could have been considered complete. but that was only until a new permanent Myth spell as developed. Regardless of what rank that spell is.

I actually have 1 Balance, 2 Myth, 2 Life, 1 Storm, 2 Ice, 2 Fire, 2 Death and most are Transcended.

I understand perfectly what is going on and that your complain is a personal feel of not being complete. It is Personal. A Choice.

True true. Personal. But regardless of what it is, there is always part of your personality that goes into a mmo. Something that makes you attached to the mmo, in one way or another.

My problem remains. You no longer just pay to play. You now pay to play and pay to grow. Whether or not the spell is important. Whether or not the spell is more powerful or less powerful. Whether or not a spell of the same rank exists.

I said on other posts, in other replies. I don't mind spending a bit of money. But, making the spells so flipping rare that it is crazy ... well, that just does not sit too well with me. My balance wizard is now level 25. I would love to have that Samoorai spell, which I did not even see ONCE. Oh, except some treasure cards. Yea, I can use treasure cards instead, but that is not the point.

I just DON'T LIKE it. And I don't think I am just throwing a tantrum. Oh, I don't PvP either, but I can perfectly see how that may throw off the balance.

Now, colagada wrote something along the lines of "Would we rather pay 15-20 dollars a month and be equal, or pay only 5 dollars a month and those with cash buy their way to the top? Well, most of us I think would choose #2."

Wow, would we really? I don't know, but I'd choose option #1. Does that make me weird?

This game teaches lessons; in a way.
Kinda like you need to work to get what you want.

Then the hoard comes out; the lesson changes to this
You need to buy to get what you want
That doesnt seem right to me. Teach children to buy their way through problems. *sigh* Agreed 100%

At this rate, they will have a pack pack! Gives out other packs!
And then training points! Great!

I have to agree with the OP, I'm ok with the packs having really good gear, and cool mounts, but spells? Sorry but, spells should only come form one of two sources school trainers, and spell quests.

Another problem with the new spells in the pace are that only three schools received new spells. Up to this point every school got a new spell at the same, but now Life, Myth, and Balance all picked up a spell, while everyone else was left empty handed, and despite what someone in this thread implied, no this imbalance does not only effect PvP. Case in point, I've stood outside of waterworks and watched experienced runners get passed over by groups in favor of new players with the pack spells.

A third problem is getting the same spell twice. If you have already picked up the spell, and you get it again, you essentially have a wasted spot in the pack you just payed for. You paid for 7 items for the hoard set, but only got 6 because you can't learn the same spell twice, and there is no way to transfer an extra spell from one character on an account to another like you can with gear.

In short this was a very poorly thought out idea on the part of KI.

af6at wrote:

I understand KI wanting to make extra money on crowns items, but to say that the game wouldn't survive without crowns, I think is just plain WRONG!

KI claims 25 million wizards, let's say that only 1/10 of them are actual "members" and the rest are free players....

That's 2,500,000 subscribers paying at least 6.95 a month - That's $17,375,000 a MONTH coming in from subscriptions. That's pushing a quarter of a BILLION dollars a year! That's if only 1 out of every 10 players is a subscriber and they're ALL on family accounts!

Also, the more time I spend in Zafaria, the more I think that KI is affiliated with "The Mouse".

Have you also taken into consideration, how many employees KI has, their salaries, the offices, electric bill, water bill, gas bill, mortgage, phone, internet bills. Then all the hi-tech computers, servers, graphics, artists, commercials, advertisements, and everything else that requires money? How much is all of this per month? What remains?

People have different views and opinions. If you don't like it fine, your choice, but to try and claim it's gambling, or you are an unfit parent if you allow these packs or ever buy them because you are indoctrinating your child into gambling? This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I hope KI lets this post go through, because enough is definitely enough.

People that say someone should get fired because of ideas, or people should leave if they don't mind KI's Idea, these people need to cease and desist. We live in a free country. We all have our own morals and beliefs on what is right and what is wrong. You have no business to dictate to anyone how or what to believe.

hease4476 wrote:

You know at first I didnt care about the packs. Dragon's Hoard came out and I was fine with it. Other MMOS have gashapon items too. I didn't really like the fact that common found reagents were in the pack but nonetheless I defended it. KI began to release pack after pack but did I complain? Not one bit.

But then THIS comes out, the ability to learn permanent spells from packs.

Why KI?

As any myth wizard who uses treasure cards knows, Ninja Pigs is a life saver in Dragonspyre. Of course the problem with treasure cards is that you'll eventually run out and have to run to the Bazaar. Quite frankly I'd be overjoyed at the ability to actually learn Ninja Pigs, a pretty powerful myth spell among others. Unfortunately I can't agree with this pack idea. These are spells, you know those things we use to fight with? All wizards should be able to obtain spells equally. Some wizards don't have access to crowns and for regular hoard packs I can understand those are wants.You don't really need a new mount that takes up a huge portion of your screen or some gear with a unique design. Spells on the other hand are vital and when only certain wizards with their parent's credit card (unless you actually work for your Crowns, kudos to you) can obtain certain spells we know we have a problem.

Considering the success of these packs I understand why KI keeps putting them out but if this pack has success (which it more than likely will) KI will continue to put these pack only spells out and it'll be a huge pain to get these for your individual wizard (especially considering you can get spells for other schools).

This is a family game, I play with my wife and kids. I devote a good chunk of my time to helping around Central and contributing to the game in what little way I can. When someone asks me what my hobbies are, I like to tell them that I play a family friendly game and help staff a major fansite for it. I like to recommend this game to people who may be interested, but I can no longer do that in good conscience.

This is not some little oversight on KI's part, and it is not accidental. The effects of intermittent reinforcement on psychological addiction are well documented, and most notable for their use in gambling establishments where people routinely ruin their lives in hopes of hitting it big. This is the exact same thing that is being pushed on children and parents by the hoard packs with increasing regularity and emphasis, and it is absolutely wrong.

Can you deny that the Raven Hoard wands are the best available in game? Or deny that players begged for these Ninja Lore spells for years? They're being placed and advertised as rare drops as a way to entice CHILDREN into frittering their cash away on these packs in a gambling situation, and it has been effective. I can think of several complaint threads by upset children who dropped 60-80k crowns on hoard packs and never got what they wanted.

I can't call that a family friendly environment when the company is actively seeking to victimize my kids if I let them play, and it certainly isn't the kind of company I signed up to work on a fan site for. I can't let my kids play it, much less proudly tell others that I support this behavior.

I am seriously considering closing the door on this game for myself and my family. I'm absolutely certain that it is becoming less and less a healthy environment to let them play and learn in.

If there is anywhere in this game that someone should put their foot down and scream "Enough!", this is it.

I take pride in not using crowns. My parents won't let me buy them, but I just said "I don't care! I'm going to prove that I can be just as powerful earning every single piece of gear with time and effort!"
Then this pack comes out.
Ninja Pigs is one of my favorite spells. When it was used in the tutorial I instantly thought "I have to learn that spell". Now every kid who's parents lets them buy crowns gets to have Ninja Pigs PLUS two other spells, but I don't get it?? That's not fair! It's not! What happened to equality? What happened to time vs Crowns? It was either you take the time to EARN the spell, or you buy Crowns, but either way you earned the item.

At first I didn't care about packs either. I just thought "Oh well. I'm not supposed to buy crowns, but that means I can spend my allowance to go buy a new toy or a book or something." I would occasionally hope that I would get a gift card for my birthday or Christmas, but I didn't care when I didn't get one.

Now, I, the kid who wants to play video games without cheats, the kid who sacrificed the abilitiy to play W101 on weekdays to get the year account, the kid who got high grades just to get a memebership, doesn't get the cool new spells? My membership was a gift for getting high grades! I had only saved up about 20 dollars, and my mom said that she'd pay for the rest since I did so well in school that year! I don't get anything for taking pride in playing games? I don't get anything for not taking short cuts? For taking the long road? For playing this game for 2 years? Really? I don't mind spending time to get the new spell, but I should be able to get it!

I don't get why people who take shortcuts should get rewarded!

joujou11cool wrote:

Unbelievable how everyone thinks that 1 single hoard containing 3 spells ruins a game. No offense, but that's the worst reason for anything I have ever heard of. 3 spells ruin a game, wow! Is it really possible for 3, out of date to high level wizards, low damage for pip cost, weak, paid for spells to ruin a game? Everyone, get your facts right. The gear, search it up on the internet (Not that good). Waterworks has the best gear so far, and will for a while. 3 spells that are weak for level 33+ come in, is that a ruined game? At level 33, you'd be giving up these spells already! Come on! You dissed kingsisle. "Oh, I'm going to quit because of 3 spells, boohoo." Go ahead, after all, it's just a game. It's 3 spells that don't even ruin anything. I expected comments like these to happen, and as soon as I got to the message boards, guess what, I was right! Never have I seen so many people threaten KI to quit. Really, you threaten KI to quit, and you think they'd change the spells for that reason? As many people said: Shame on you to do such a thing. Have you tested these spells out, or are these just head-on complaints? Most likely I won't get any replies because you can't take on what I'm saying, but really, just go see these spells for yourself, test them out with a friend. Is it a killer?

I, along with those who replied somewhat negatively to the addition of permanent spell cards, think you may still not understand this the way I do. You sound like you have worked up a bit of an attitude. Take a deep breath, and calm yourself down. I am not trying to convert you.

I have a couple of transcended wizards, and I take full advantage of my level 4-5 pip spells. So, by level 33, I will most definitely not have given up on my 'weak' spells.

Its three spells. Correct, only three spells. For those three schools they belong to, they are more powerful spells than their current rank 5 spells, and especially for the Life school, which does not even have a level 5 attack spell. Nor a rank 4 for that matter. And for those wizards who are still in the 20's or less, those spells become incredibly powerful firepower very early in the game. Not to mention that the Samoorai and the Goat monk spells are some incredibly beautiful spells.

Once again, may I remind you that there is a difference from treasure cards, and having them in your library permanently.

They may not change the game, but they change the way I think and play. If my wizard belongs to any of those three schools, I WANT those spells. Why? Because they will be permanently added to my library. I can not be allowed to have those spells unless I spend lots of money just for a chance to have one. Ontop of which, I may not even get a spell of the school that I am looking for.

Like the apps for phone/droid/tablets, etc. You have free apps. Free apps take advantage of their in app purchases to earn money. Then you have paid apps. Apps you pay for, but then don't have to spend any further for in order for you to enjoy and play.

Then you have the paid apps AND then be thrown with more in app purchases that you have to buy in order to complete the game/character you are playing.

That is how I now feel about Wizard101. You have to spend money to play. Whether you play with crowns or subscription. But now you have to spend more money if you want your wizard to be complete.

I do understand what everyone is saying when they disagree with me. Don't get me wrong. And I understand where you are coming from. But the simple fact is: Myth wizards, Life wizards, and Balance wizards will never be complete and learn all their spells until you spend more money ontop of money we are already spending to play. I just find it more insulting to Life players than the other two school players, because it is a powerful, upgraded attack spell that Life players would otherwise never get.

Even if you never agree with me/us, don't be mad or angry about it. The whole point of the forums is for discussions/debates/banter such as this. When we say "oh we quit" we may not necessarily quit. It is more to convey our feelings than anything else. And yes, we diss KI for it. But that is more to convey our feelings than anything else. Not like we hate them. We know they are a business.

In a nutshell, I do believe I have my facts right. As many of the people do that responded to this. What KI did with adding spells was a dirty tactic to entice people to spend money. Like a gas station very close to your home adding an extra two dollars per gallon just because they want more money. I bet that would have anyone ticked off. And if that is completely agreeable with people, then they'll simply add on an extra two dollars per gallon. And they will keep on doing this until EVERYONE becomes ticked.

My biggest fear now, given the current direction this is going in, is that new spells for other schools will be released in packs, and I'll have a hard time resisting trying getting those. Even more powerful rank 9 or rank 10 spells may be released via packs, with crowns only. What would you say then?

It is like, you pay for a pokemon game, that everybody loves, c'mon now, and be charged five dollars every time you want a new pokemon in your party. So, you start with your starter pokemon, then have to pay 20 bucks to fill out your team of 6. You can catch them, but you can't have them!

Anyway, enough for now. :P This is very interesting to me. Hope more people add their thoughts and opinions.

Edit: Life wizards do have a rank 4 attack spell. I did not think about the Seraph spell.

Indeed Wildert, every single person should think this way. I believe that the love from people is way more important than the money from people. And everybody, or most of everybody, can also enjoy themselves longer at the same time.

To everyone saying: "It's not a must have," I know that.

But a lot of little kids that aren't old enough to understand the value of money, and keep buying and buying the packs. Throwing their crowns down the drain. They just think "Oh Cool! New spells! I must get them!"

Shiningfantasia wrote:

joujou11cool wrote:

Unbelievable how everyone thinks that 1 single hoard containing 3 spells ruins a game. No offense, but that's the worst reason for anything I have ever heard of. 3 spells ruin a game, wow! Is it really possible for 3, out of date to high level wizards, low damage for pip cost, weak, paid for spells to ruin a game? Everyone, get your facts right. The gear, search it up on the internet (Not that good). Waterworks has the best gear so far, and will for a while. 3 spells that are weak for level 33+ come in, is that a ruined game? At level 33, you'd be giving up these spells already! Come on! You dissed kingsisle. "Oh, I'm going to quit because of 3 spells, boohoo." Go ahead, after all, it's just a game. It's 3 spells that don't even ruin anything. I expected comments like these to happen, and as soon as I got to the message boards, guess what, I was right! Never have I seen so many people threaten KI to quit. Really, you threaten KI to quit, and you think they'd change the spells for that reason? As many people said: Shame on you to do such a thing. Have you tested these spells out, or are these just head-on complaints? Most likely I won't get any replies because you can't take on what I'm saying, but really, just go see these spells for yourself, test them out with a friend. Is it a killer?

I, along with those who replied somewhat negatively to the addition of permanent spell cards, think you may still not understand this the way I do. You sound like you have worked up a bit of an attitude. Take a deep breath, and calm yourself down. I am not trying to convert you.

I have a couple of transcended wizards, and I take full advantage of my level 4-5 pip spells. So, by level 33, I will most definitely not have given up on my 'weak' spells.

Its three spells. Correct, only three spells. For those three schools they belong to, they are more powerful spells than their current rank 5 spells, and especially for the Life school, which does not even have a level 5 attack spell. Nor a rank 4 for that matter. And for those wizards who are still in the 20's or less, those spells become incredibly powerful firepower very early in the game. Not to mention that the Samoorai and the Goat monk spells are some incredibly beautiful spells.

Once again, may I remind you that there is a difference from treasure cards, and having them in your library permanently.

They may not change the game, but they change the way I think and play. If my wizard belongs to any of those three schools, I WANT those spells. Why? Because they will be permanently added to my library. I can not be allowed to have those spells unless I spend lots of money just for a chance to have one. Ontop of which, I may not even get a spell of the school that I am looking for.

Like the apps for phone/droid/tablets, etc. You have free apps. Free apps take advantage of their in app purchases to earn money. Then you have paid apps. Apps you pay for, but then don't have to spend any further for in order for you to enjoy and play.

Then you have the paid apps AND then be thrown with more in app purchases that you have to buy in order to complete the game/character you are playing.

That is how I now feel about Wizard101. You have to spend money to play. Whether you play with crowns or subscription. But now you have to spend more money if you want your wizard to be complete.

I do understand what everyone is saying when they disagree with me. Don't get me wrong. And I understand where you are coming from. But the simple fact is: Myth wizards, Life wizards, and Balance wizards will never be complete and learn all their spells until you spend more money ontop of money we are already spending to play. I just find it more insulting to Life players than the other two school players, because it is a powerful, upgraded attack spell that Life players would otherwise never get.

Even if you never agree with me/us, don't be mad or angry about it. The whole point of the forums is for discussions/debates/banter such as this. When we say "oh we quit" we may not necessarily quit. It is more to convey our feelings than anything else. And yes, we diss KI for it. But that is more to convey our feelings than anything else. Not like we hate them. We know they are a business.

In a nutshell, I do believe I have my facts right. As many of the people do that responded to this. What KI did with adding spells was a dirty tactic to entice people to spend money. Like a gas station very close to your home adding an extra two dollars per gallon just because they want more money. I bet that would have anyone ticked off. And if that is completely agreeable with people, then they'll simply add on an extra two dollars per gallon. And they will keep on doing this until EVERYONE becomes ticked.

My biggest fear now, given the current direction this is going in, is that new spells for other schools will be released in packs, and I'll have a hard time resisting trying getting those. Even more powerful rank 9 or rank 10 spells may be released via packs, with crowns only. What would you say then?

It is like, you pay for a pokemon game, that everybody loves, c'mon now, and be charged five dollars every time you want a new pokemon in your party. So, you start with your starter pokemon, then have to pay 20 bucks to fill out your team of 6. You can catch them, but you can't have them!

Anyway, enough for now. :P This is very interesting to me. Hope more people add their thoughts and opinions.

Edit: Life wizards do have a rank 4 attack spell. I did not think about the Seraph spell.

Yup, you do make points on these that are actually really good, but the thing is, I'm not complaining unless KI says they're going to make a lot more packs like these, so until then, I'm on KI's side. 440-520 damage with Goat Monk, 5 pips. That spell covers up Life's rank 5 spell. Exactly what you said, and I am quite tempted to get these spells, but I'll try to hold myself back. 460-540 with the Samoorai spell, that's.. ah, not the type of spell I'd want to use for 5 pips. Well, since I get power pips every round, I'd rather double Spectral Blast Storm hit or just throw in a Hydra. These spells are tempting to some, but remember:
These are additional spells that you don't need.

I'm on your side for the completing your spell library thing, I don't feel as advantaged anymore.

I agree.

hease4476 wrote:

You know at first I didnt care about the packs. Dragon's Hoard came out and I was fine with it. Other MMOS have gashapon items too. I didn't really like the fact that common found reagents were in the pack but nonetheless I defended it. KI began to release pack after pack but did I complain? Not one bit.

But then THIS comes out, the ability to learn permanent spells from packs.

Why KI?

As any myth wizard who uses treasure cards knows, Ninja Pigs is a life saver in Dragonspyre. Of course the problem with treasure cards is that you'll eventually run out and have to run to the Bazaar. Quite frankly I'd be overjoyed at the ability to actually learn Ninja Pigs, a pretty powerful myth spell among others. Unfortunately I can't agree with this pack idea. These are spells, you know those things we use to fight with? All wizards should be able to obtain spells equally. Some wizards don't have access to crowns and for regular hoard packs I can understand those are wants.You don't really need a new mount that takes up a huge portion of your screen or some gear with a unique design. Spells on the other hand are vital and when only certain wizards with their parent's credit card (unless you actually work for your Crowns, kudos to you) can obtain certain spells we know we have a problem.

Considering the success of these packs I understand why KI keeps putting them out but if this pack has success (which it more than likely will) KI will continue to put these pack only spells out and it'll be a huge pain to get these for your individual wizard (especially considering you can get spells for other schools).

This is a family game, I play with my wife and kids. I devote a good chunk of my time to helping around Central and contributing to the game in what little way I can. When someone asks me what my hobbies are, I like to tell them that I play a family friendly game and help staff a major fansite for it. I like to recommend this game to people who may be interested, but I can no longer do that in good conscience.

This is not some little oversight on KI's part, and it is not accidental. The effects of intermittent reinforcement on psychological addiction are well documented, and most notable for their use in gambling establishments where people routinely ruin their lives in hopes of hitting it big. This is the exact same thing that is being pushed on children and parents by the hoard packs with increasing regularity and emphasis, and it is absolutely wrong.

Can you deny that the Raven Hoard wands are the best available in game? Or deny that players begged for these Ninja Lore spells for years? They're being placed and advertised as rare drops as a way to entice CHILDREN into frittering their cash away on these packs in a gambling situation, and it has been effective. I can think of several complaint threads by upset children who dropped 60-80k crowns on hoard packs and never got what they wanted.

I can't call that a family friendly environment when the company is actively seeking to victimize my kids if I let them play, and it certainly isn't the kind of company I signed up to work on a fan site for. I can't let my kids play it, much less proudly tell others that I support this behavior.

I am seriously considering closing the door on this game for myself and my family. I'm absolutely certain that it is becoming less and less a healthy environment to let them play and learn in.

If there is anywhere in this game that someone should put their foot down and scream "Enough!", this is it.

Thank you! :) I never really liked the crowns shop, but tolerated it, for the most part. But this is giving players a literal chance to BUY THEIR WAY OUT OF THE GAME. Of course you can farm these bosses to get the
spells: Koto(cave of solitude, mushu)- Ninja pigs :)
Zaneki(shirataki temple air shrine, mushu)- Goat monk
Can't farm for the samoori :(...

P.S. I recommend you don't bring this conversation to wizard101central. It's filled with crowns addicts.

Who says you cant farm for the Samurai?

Some have said you can.

Point being, patience is a virtue. If you can't wait for things, you buy them with crowns. If you wait and work for them, you can get them. It has always been this way with KI and Wizards.

Enough is Enough, Wizards is the best game going and for some reason, some of you people are never happy with anything.