Putting non level restricted rank five spells in a crown pack is by far the worst thing KI has ever done to their game. This is a major step towards being able to simply buy your way through the game. Not to mention the disastrous affect it will have on low level pvp. I have always held out some slim hope that someday KI would address all the pvp related problems in game. Not anymore. After playing for over three years, for the first time I am considering canceling my subscription.
Agreed. I posted on this topic on one of the threads above, so I won't reiterate everything I said. But spells should be earned, not bought. Kids should not think they can dominate in PvP--or PvE--simply by spending a ton of crowns to get these new spells. With this pack, a level 1 can have a big hit spell just by paying money. It's frankly terrible, and really has made me rethink what this game is about. Very, very disappointed in this marketing move. :(
There are treasure cards that are higher level available at the bazaar for gold, which are not level restricted.
So, to put it mildly. 1: High level wizards should be able to sell the treasure cards they don't want or wont use. 2: If a person earns enough gold, they should be able to buy these treasure cards. 3: If you are not good enough to play low level pvp and shield yourself from an attack, it is your fault you lost the pvp match, not the treasure cards, and certainly not KI's. Learn to defend before you complain!
These people that complain treasure cards should be banned from PvP or level restricted should learn how to play and defend themself before they start complaining. It's not the cards, the opponents, nor KI's fault you lose, it's your own.
darthjt: You do not fully understand the complaint. These are not treasure cards. The pack is offering real (permanent) spells, which can be enchanted. These spells are available to any level wizard with sufficient crowns and good luck to get them by buying the packs.
darthjt: You do not fully understand the complaint. These are not treasure cards. The pack is offering real (permanent) spells, which can be enchanted. These spells are available to any level wizard with sufficient crowns and good luck to get them by buying the packs.
I do fully understand the complaint. And my response remains the same, so what?
Do you go to the grocery store with a food stamp card and expect to leave with as many groceries as a millionaire? No, you take what you are given.
Oh no, someone is going to have a couple spells I don't have because they spend real cash for them, oh no, the world is going to end!
For those of you who do not wish to spend real cash for these spells, are they not offered as treasure cards? Yes, you use it, you lose it, while people that have paid hard earned cash get to keep the spell, does that meaned everyone is more powerful than you are now? No, the spells we have currently are quite adequate to get you through any scenario in the game.
The problem, which most people forget, is that KI is a business, it is designed to make money. New spells, new pets, new things cost money to make. Why is it so bad for KI to finally reward people who spend their money on this game, with a couple things that you can't get unless you buy them?
The real issue here, is that people want everything handed down to them on a silver platter for free. Be happy with what you have, if not, spend some money, it's that simple. I don't usually buy packs, so no, I wont be getting these spells, does that mean I begrudge KI or the people that bought them, certainly not.
I too am disappointed that KI is going this route with spells. I don't PVP much, but as Darthjt says, there are plenty of TCs out there that can be bought or harvested from gardens that can be abused in PVP if you don't have a decent strategy. But that isn't my concern.
I don't tend to buy many of these packs anyway, but permanent spells have always been something we have had to work for and earn and I don't think that should be changed. Do I especially need or want these spells for my wizards, no I don't, I can work around them. Sure, KI may have TC versions of these available in the bazaar soon as well, but overall, to me this just cheapens all the effort my wizards have put in to earn their spells.
I too am disappointed that KI is going this route with spells. I don't PVP much, but as Darthjt says, there are plenty of TCs out there that can be bought or harvested from gardens that can be abused in PVP if you don't have a decent strategy. But that isn't my concern.
I don't tend to buy many of these packs anyway, but permanent spells have always been something we have had to work for and earn and I don't think that should be changed. Do I especially need or want these spells for my wizards, no I don't, I can work around them. Sure, KI may have TC versions of these available in the bazaar soon as well, but overall, to me this just cheapens all the effort my wizards have put in to earn their spells.
Say it isn't so. You agree with them?
Granted, wizards usually have to work for spells, but so what if a few are given for players spending a little extra cash in the game. KI is running a business, after all. How can you begrudge people or KI for this?
Putting non level restricted rank five spells in a crown pack is by far the worst thing KI has ever done to their game. This is a major step towards being able to simply buy your way through the game. Not to mention the disastrous affect it will have on low level pvp. I have always held out some slim hope that someday KI would address all the pvp related problems in game. Not anymore. After playing for over three years, for the first time I am considering canceling my subscription.
And no Darthjt, I don't begrudge KI finding ways to earn money, I just don't think that learned permenant spells should fall in the random aquisition category.
Another problem I see with this, is the spell is permanent, non deletable, even if you respec your training points with Mr. Lincoln the spell will remain in your deck taking up space if you can't or won't use it. Doesn't the game have enough "memory" or file sizing problems as it is? This will only add to the overload lag problems.
I agree with both Tabby714 and Darthjt. While the spells are hopefully not that useful in the Arena, the amount of complaints that will erupt from this will be large enough to fill a black hole.
And no Darthjt, I don't begrudge KI finding ways to earn money, I just don't think that learned permenant spells should fall in the random aquisition category.
You don't think they should why? Is it that big of a deal? Are they game changers? Do they ruin the game? Is it fair that everything be free in the game that is offered for crowns? People that spend extra cash should be sometimes rewarded with things that are not offered for free in the game, I have no problem with this.
You know I dont often get packs, and I wont be getting these new packs, however, I dont begrude KI nor the people that do spend the extra cash these spells. Another problem I see with this, is the spell is permanent, non deletable, even if you respec your training points with Mr. Lincoln the spell will remain in your deck taking up space if you can't or won't use it. Doesn't the game have enough "memory" or file sizing problems as it is? This will only add to the overload lag problems.
Actually, I don't see this as a memory problem. Yes, we both have had lag issues. Mine are in the past, was a computer problem of mine, that I was unaware of. Your problem is probably the same thing.
However, these issues are besides the point. These new spells and hoard packs are fine, they are not game changers, nor bad business on KI part. Some of you need to learn what good business and bad business are. Nothing here is a Must have if you want to complete the game.
People that spend extra cash should be sometimes rewarded with things that are not offered for free in the game, I have no problem with this.
Absolutely. In fact, I have a cool idea. How about this. When you reach level 48 or 58, instead of a message from your teacher to begin a spell quest, you could get a window that says "Buy Level 48 Spell Pack Now, for a Chance at a New Spell!"
It would save us all time and aggravation--or at least those of us with lots of crowns to spend! The rest of the people--those who aren't rich enough to keep spending crowns as they progress through the game--can just buy these spells in treasure card form! It's a win-win, don't you think?
You don't think they should why? Is it that big of a deal? Are they game changers? Do they ruin the game? Is it fair that everything be free in the game that is offered for crowns? People that spend extra cash should be sometimes rewarded with things that are not offered for free in the game, I have no problem with this.
I think people are not able to articulate the core reason this pack is bothering them so much, which is that the game's MO has taken a different turn from what people are used to, and have become accustomed to.
Also, there are many many players who see these spells as filling in gaps that have been asked for over the years. The method of implementation bothers them. It disappoints me instead.
The Samoorai spell would be a great spell to have, and I would use it in my main balance deck arsenal if I could get it through a trainer.
It is how I have gotten all my other spells, and it is a bummer I can't get Samoorai the same way. That it is a random and rare pack item means I won't be getting it at all.
That is the foundation of all the heat KI is taking with this pack. People are couching it in other ideals such as low-level PvP imbalance, fairness and "the right to have", but it is the need to pay money to get that which in the past has always been integrated into their membership part that has riled up the masses.
This game is a turn-based card-casting game with base cards and special cards (item and treasure), and now that base spells have been introduced that must be purchased, it means you must pay extra on top of what you already do to access more of the core game function.
You don't think they should why? Is it that big of a deal? Are they game changers? Do they ruin the game? Is it fair that everything be free in the game that is offered for crowns? People that spend extra cash should be sometimes rewarded with things that are not offered for free in the game, I have no problem with this.
You know I dont often get packs, and I wont be getting these new packs, however, I dont begrude KI nor the people that do spend the extra cash these spells.
I think our spells should be earned and learned because they are a big part of what defines our wizards. It occurs first in the choice of school we make for our wizards and then secondly in how we spend our training points. It defines the type of wizard we are to be, independent fighter, team player, healer, offensive or defensive. It is an individual choice that one makes wisely or not.
Sure, I can see your point about a nice little reward for spending crowns if you choose to do so. After all these are what, 5 pip spells? With most of our wizards at legendary or higher a 5 pip spell is certainly not going to make or break us. If fact the only use I would expect to make of them would be just for occasional fun similar to using a polymorph card that I haven't deleted yet or a summon minion card that someone gave me. Say maybe use it to one shot kill Luska just for fun? But for normal everyday questing with my friends, I would not likely use it, because it would not fit into my normal questing rhythm. So from that standpoint it's fine, it serves the purpose KI has of providing some extra fun for some extra crowns. You are right, it is no big deal, no game changer.
But would you feel the same way if it was a 9 or 10 pip spell? Sure, I know you would find a way to defend against what ever came your way, but where is the line drawn? When does it reach a point of unbalance? And why let it get there?
For those that have expressed concern that this gives players a way to buy their way through the game, there is an error in their logic. You can't get "through the game" if you don't level normally and earn your spells. This again gives credence to "KI is just giving us a reward for spending our crowns," But the question has already hit the message boards of someone wanting to pay their way to level 70 for PVP. So perhaps the idea of buying your way through the game is not so far fetched. But if you are playing the game for fun, what is the point of buying your way through?
darthjt wrote:
Actually, I don't see this as a memory problem. Yes, we both have had lag issues. Mine are in the past, was a computer problem of mine, that I was unaware of. Your problem is probably the same thing.
However, these issues are besides the point. These new spells and hoard packs are fine, they are not game changers, nor bad business on KI part. Some of you need to learn what good business and bad business are. Nothing here is a Must have if you want to complete the game.
I have no problem with the packs, people can and will spend money on them. KI knows this is a money maker for them, it does make good business sense for them to issue as many of those as they can. I just think they should stick with mounts, pets, treasure card spells and gear (laughable though their gear has been of late - too bad they did not take some of your ideas there) instead of permanent spells. I simply feel our spells are one of the accomplishments and achievements that we have in the game that we can point to with pride and that should remain the same.
I agree with both Tabby714 and Darthjt. While the spells are hopefully not that useful in the Arena, the amount of complaints that will erupt from this will be large enough to fill a black hole.
Having PvPed on both Myth and Balance, I can assure you, these spells are tremendously useful in the arena.
You don't think they should why? Is it that big of a deal? Are they game changers? Do they ruin the game? Is it fair that everything be free in the game that is offered for crowns? People that spend extra cash should be sometimes rewarded with things that are not offered for free in the game, I have no problem with this.
You know I dont often get packs, and I wont be getting these new packs, however, I dont begrude KI nor the people that do spend the extra cash these spells.
I think our spells should be earned and learned because they are a big part of what defines our wizards. It occurs first in the choice of school we make for our wizards and then secondly in how we spend our training points. It defines the type of wizard we are to be, independent fighter, team player, healer, offensive or defensive. It is an individual choice that one makes wisely or not.
All spells have been earned and learned. Now, because of 3 spells, which paying extra "earns" you, there is a problem? Let me ask you this. Ever start a death wizard with a scarecrow pet? Or use scarecrow treasure cards on a low level death wizard? Are these new spells better or any different? How about power leveling, which I know you can't stand. It is a personal choice, but neither you, nor does anyone else, have the right to tell someone what they can or can't do, due to your personal preference. Sure, I can see your point about a nice little reward for spending crowns if you choose to do so. After all these are what, 5 pip spells? With most of our wizards at legendary or higher a 5 pip spell is certainly not going to make or break us. If fact the only use I would expect to make of them would be just for occasional fun similar to using a polymorph card that I haven't deleted yet or a summon minion card that someone gave me. Say maybe use it to one shot kill Luska just for fun? But for normal everyday questing with my friends, I would not likely use it, because it would not fit into my normal questing rhythm. So from that standpoint it's fine, it serves the purpose KI has of providing some extra fun for some extra crowns. You are right, it is no big deal, no game changer.
Thank you :D But would you feel the same way if it was a 9 or 10 pip spell? Sure, I know you would find a way to defend against what ever came your way, but where is the line drawn? When does it reach a point of unbalance? And why let it get there?
Yes I would feel the same way if it was a 9 or 10 pip spell. Even if it was a 4 or 5 pip spell that gave life or death an attack all spell, or storm an AoE DoT spell. Yes, I would then want to spend my extra money for these spells. These spells might even be considered game changers as they would greatly change the game. Still, there is a difference between questing and learning spells, pets and pets with spells, and now crown spells. I know that crown gear is a waste. Actually, the only thing as of now, worth spending crowns on, are evil magma peas, and maybe a few hoard packs. Gear is useless. For those that have expressed concern that this gives players a way to buy their way through the game, there is an error in their logic. You can't get "through the game" if you don't level normally and earn your spells. This again gives credence to "KI is just giving us a reward for spending our crowns,"
Which is my whole point and why everyone else is letting this get out of hand.
But the question has already hit the message boards of someone wanting to pay their way to level 70 for PVP. So perhaps the idea of buying your way through the game is not so far fetched. But if you are playing the game for fun, what is the point of buying your way through?
As the person stated, he wanted to buy his way through for PvP. People play this game for different reasons and different aspects. Not everyone plays for the exact same reason. Nobody should also be force to play the game or level up, or learn spells by someone elses personal preferences.
darthjt wrote:
Actually, I don't see this as a memory problem. Yes, we both have had lag issues. Mine are in the past, was a computer problem of mine, that I was unaware of. Your problem is probably the same thing.
However, these issues are besides the point. These new spells and hoard packs are fine, they are not game changers, nor bad business on KI part. Some of you need to learn what good business and bad business are. Nothing here is a Must have if you want to complete the game.
I have no problem with the packs, people can and will spend money on them. KI knows this is a money maker for them, it does make good business sense for them to issue as many of those as they can. I just think they should stick with mounts, pets, treasure card spells and gear (laughable though their gear has been of late - too bad they did not take some of your ideas there) instead of permanent spells. I simply feel our spells are one of the accomplishments and achievements that we have in the game that we can point to with pride and that should remain the same.
Yes, change is difficult to accept. I may not like the idea either, I wouldn't mind having some of the new spells, but I am not going to begrudge KI or people that buy the packs. It is their choice to spend the crowns. Do I wish that KI would make some of the rare things available to straight out buy instead of taking a chance, yes. I think spells in a spell shop or some of the new wands in the wand shop would be terrific.
darthjt: You do not fully understand the complaint. These are not treasure cards. The pack is offering real (permanent) spells, which can be enchanted. These spells are available to any level wizard with sufficient crowns and good luck to get them by buying the packs.
I do fully understand the complaint. And my response remains the same, so what?
Do you go to the grocery store with a food stamp card and expect to leave with as many groceries as a millionaire? No, you take what you are given.
Oh no, someone is going to have a couple spells I don't have because they spend real cash for them, oh no, the world is going to end!
For those of you who do not wish to spend real cash for these spells, are they not offered as treasure cards? Yes, you use it, you lose it, while people that have paid hard earned cash get to keep the spell, does that meaned everyone is more powerful than you are now? No, the spells we have currently are quite adequate to get you through any scenario in the game.
The problem, which most people forget, is that KI is a business, it is designed to make money. New spells, new pets, new things cost money to make. Why is it so bad for KI to finally reward people who spend their money on this game, with a couple things that you can't get unless you buy them?
The real issue here, is that people want everything handed down to them on a silver platter for free. Be happy with what you have, if not, spend some money, it's that simple. I don't usually buy packs, so no, I wont be getting these spells, does that mean I begrudge KI or the people that bought them, certainly not.
I disagree with you. Either you play a Fire, Death, Storm, or Ice wizard, or you don't simply care about fully developing your character.
I am a Myth wizard. Until I spend money ontop of money spent on subscription, my Myth wizard will forever be incomplete. Regardless of what rank that spell is, how powerful that spell is, or what it does, my Myth wizard will simply never have all his Myth spells until I spend money. More money ontop of money spent on subscriptions.
I can turn around and just as easily as you say "oh pff, what is everyone complaining about, everybody get a grip" (based on one of your other responses to another topic of very similiar nature), but being a Myth wizard that wants to be fully developed and complete, I simply have a problem with it.
I think people are not able to articulate the core reason this pack is bothering them so much, which is that the game's MO has taken a different turn from what people are used to, and have become accustomed to.
Also, there are many many players who see these spells as filling in gaps that have been asked for over the years. The method of implementation bothers them. It disappoints me instead.
The Samoorai spell would be a great spell to have, and I would use it in my main balance deck arsenal if I could get it through a trainer.
It is how I have gotten all my other spells, and it is a bummer I can't get Samoorai the same way. That it is a random and rare pack item means I won't be getting it at all.
That is the foundation of all the heat KI is taking with this pack. People are couching it in other ideals such as low-level PvP imbalance, fairness and "the right to have", but it is the need to pay money to get that which in the past has always been integrated into their membership part that has riled up the masses.
This game is a turn-based card-casting game with base cards and special cards (item and treasure), and now that base spells have been introduced that must be purchased, it means you must pay extra on top of what you already do to access more of the core game function.
Also very well said.
I'm not saying this would happen, but what if no one said anything against the idea of permanent spells in game packs, what would happen next? Would KI say say "Wow, those went over well, but a lot of people really want those spells. So after we make a bunch from selling packs with a low percentage of folks getting the spells, we can sell the spells individually in the game from the crown shop or from a special vendor." Then that goes over well for them financially too. So what's the next logical progression? They start offering higher and higher spells for individual purchase. Is it not plausible that they would eventually decide all high level spells that you train should be paid for individually?
As I said, I'm not saying this would happen, because it would go against the design of attaining spells thus far. But then again, these current spells go against the current design as well.
So I repeat, I'm disappointed that KI has gone this route to provide spells. It does not catastrophically end my game play. I'm merely disappointed and expressing concern over this particular business choice. It would have been nice if KI had tested this major change in test realm or even in Professor Falmae's Friday question to better gauge reaction. These spells are in the game now however, so for those that have them, they should enjoy them. I merely am hoping that this will be the last of such spells offered. By all means KI, make your money selling packs, but please keep learned permanent spells out of the purchase category. They are a fundamental part of the game.
I agree that KI is first and foremost a business, but isn't part of being a good business to keep the majority of its clientel (yeah i know its misspelled) happy? I know they will never be able to make everyone happy. Its a fact of life that some people will always find something to complain about (and that's their right as a human being).
My question to everyone would be, will it make you all happy if they ban these spells from PVP?
Whose to say they don't plan to add these spells later in the game? We also can't assume that KI will make more buyable spells in the future. No one knows what the staff at KI is thinking and you know what people say about those who assume....
Anyways I still love this game and these spells make no difference to me, but I do hope KI will come up with a solution that will make the majority happy or at least safisfied.
Many people don't think about how because many kids play the game, this is one of the ways they are thought some life lessons, like manners and etc. If kids see that they can buy their way though the game, they carry that into the real world. They will think they can buy their way through life. Think about it. 8)
I am disappointed in KI regarding the release of this pack as well. I couldn't put my finger on why at first, but I think I have it sorted now. It doesn't bother me that people have the option of essentially buying their way through the game. This is a perfectly valid solution for many of life's issues if you have the resources. It is in fact the reason we have the phrase, "throw money at it". It doesn't in any way upset PvP either because after all, you can't buy skill. It doesn't bother me that kids might throw their money down the drain on packs trying to get a "cool" item. Personally, I have used it as a teachable moment for my children, explaining the risks, the consequences, and that they would have to use their own savings/allowance for the chance at it. It did not encourage gambling, but rather it has made them more averse to wasting their money on this sort of thing in the future. What bothers me about this pack is the precedent being set.
These new spells are not item cards from gear or a pet, nor are they simple one time use treasure cards. These are trained spells which are granted regardless of rank, training points, or even primary school of magic. Essentially, the door has now been opened to paying money for a chance at learning any spell from any school, at any level, and without any training points. There has been a lot of talk in threads related to this topic which is aimed at minimizing the value of these spells. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think these spells will be a huge game changer. However, I think its disingenuous to compare these spells to item cards or treasure cards. These spells can have colossal or extraordinary applied which puts their potential per pip significantly ahead of other options. Please don't try to convince everyone that being able to have 4 or 5 815 damage monstrous ninja pigs in your side deck isn't a significant advantage in low level pvp.
I have never taken issue with gear, pets, or treasure cards because they are inherently limited. An item card can only be used once until reshuffled. A treasure card can only be used once period. The entire notion of trained spells awarded without regard to training points, rank, or even school of magic, however, just doesn't sit right with me. If that's what is to become of this game, then what's the point? How long will it be until KI starts making packs which allow a chance at any three random spells already in the game? We could call it KI's weekly hoard pack lotto, after all some lucky dog will win it right? Who wouldn't want a shot at school "exclusive" spells like balance blade or stun for the price of a hoard pack?
It isn't the gambling aspect that bothers, not even one bit. What bothers me is that this leads to breaking down all of the long held rules for how you "build" a character. As a customer, I am disappointed in this pack. I think KI needs to know that heading down this road leads to a place where I can't see continuing my family's subscriptions not because it is unethical or immoral, but because it will make for a game that simply isn't fun for more than a week or two. Just ask yourself how many wizards you would bother to make if you knew you could essentially buy any spell from any school at any time? How many pointless quests would you endure for training points if you could just buy it? How long, exactly, would you continue to play this game should KI continue down this road?
What bothers me is that this leads to breaking down all of the long held rules for how you "build" a character. As a customer, I am disappointed in this pack. I think KI needs to know that heading down this road leads to a place where I can't see continuing my family's subscriptions not because it is unethical or immoral, but because it will make for a game that simply isn't fun for more than a week or two. Just ask yourself how many wizards you would bother to make if you knew you could essentially buy any spell from any school at any time? How many pointless quests would you endure for training points if you could just buy it? How long, exactly, would you continue to play this game should KI continue down this road?
Eloquently put. That is precisely what is troubling. The game industry is still young--technology is going to make a lot more possible in the coming years. But games aren't just about tech--they are about having a vision of what the game will look like in two to five years. About balancing short-term profits (necessary for growth) with long-term vision. And this spell business is worrisome in that respect. I don't see any way whereby this looks like a good plan for the future of the game--although it may indeed be good for business. But as gtarhannon said, it will take all the challenge out of it. It will ruin the structural foundation of the game as it exists now, and turn it into something else. Something that wouldn't interest me in the long run. Games are popular because they simulate a meritocracy, I think. You earn your way to new levels, new titles, new privileges. You can, within the context of the game, be proud of yourself and your accomplishments. If spells are available for purchase, you can simply be proud you have more money than the next person. That makes the game more like (the less appealing aspects of) real life--and therefore, less appealing as a distraction (or even refuge) from it. In other words, if you want to go to a place where the wealthy have more stuff, more privileges, and more fun than everyone else, why play a game at all? Just live in the real world.
In short, I really hope KI will reconsider the direction they seem to be taking here.
