Ok i have been racking my mind with math for the last couple days trying to figure this out. Here are my calculations: Wraith card from pet 575 damage. total buffs from armor and all death spells puts it at 300% exact atm. 300% of 575 is 1725.
How ever i know that the spells work in order so in order to try and comprehend this i converted the % to decimals. in activation order its from lowest to highest please note i have to put the 2 blades before the traps since they activate first:spell*armor*blade*blade*each trap so that works out to 575*1.45*1.40*1.35*1.2*1.25*1.30*1.35*1.7=7052.043009375 or rounded up to nearest whole is 7053
Now if the order of trap activation is reversed so 575*1.45*1.40*1.35*1.7*1.35*1.30*1.25*1.2= 7052.043009375 Same thing. Conclusion is it doesnt matter what order your traps are placed in youll do the same damage.
now i understand all this math etc but heres what i DO NOT GET: Taking my lvl 60 necro to cyclopes lan and fighting a boss with no resist or boost to death i used all my spells and hit without critical for 6991 damage. Its not much of a difference but the math doesnt add up. So are we all losing damage due to weird calculations? Be it a minute amount i think something is wrong and the damage calculations just dont add up. Can some one please help me figure this out? I tried dropping all tenths of a whole number while multiplying it still equaled over 7000.
I used to work on MMO programming specifically in damage calculations and i just noticed the math doesnt work.
Is it possible you didn't have one of your traps up? Although not a huge difference the calc order will alter the outcome. Additionally most spells have a damage variance not a set amount. Just some thoughts on the matter.
I researched your numbers, and from what I can tell, there is big rounding happening. What's happening is every time a blade/trap is activated the calculation is rounded to the next lowest multiple of 5 (i.e. if the calculation comes up as 834.75 it is rounded down to 830).
Since rounding like this is happening, the order in which the blades/traps activate does matter!
I ran the numbers in this fashion and in this order
575*1.45*1.40*1.35*1.7*1.35*1.30*1.25*1.2
Making sure to round before multiplying the next booster, the calculation came up as 6996, which is close to what you got. I'm too impatient to find that exact order, but I'll bet that if you use this formula AND find the correct order in which the traps/blades are activated, you'll find your exact damage.
Do note, that Armor boosts are always calculated first and the final damage is not rounded.
If you want to know, what made me think of this is the fact that regular damage cards that do a range of damages (like balance scorpion does 160-200), (with no boosts) they always do damages on multiples of 5 (160, 165, 170... etc.) so I figured the calculation probably rounded to those multiples.
i have layered traps in every order i can and it comes up the same every time. 6991. but when i run the math in every combo there are some varients. i did do the rounmding down to nearest 5. the math still doesnt work.
This is in between a 1 and 2% difference, so it seems that the initial damage amount is off by about 5 points. if you take 570 and add in your traps and blades, it comes up 6990.7. have you tried to see he it's doing the correct damage with no equipment, blades, or traps? this looks like it may be an error on the card's base damage and therefore an actual glitch.
This is in between a 1 and 2% difference, so it seems that the initial damage amount is off by about 5 points. if you take 570 and add in your traps and blades, it comes up 6990.7. have you tried to see he it's doing the correct damage with no equipment, blades, or traps? this looks like it may be an error on the card's base damage and therefore an actual glitch.
Ahh i never did that to see if the spell itself is functioning properly. I shall test that immediately.
so i just tested the spell and it did hit for 575 and a normal wraith also it for its intended damage the problem seems to stem form somewhere in the damage itself. the next step i take will be casting a single buff at a time and calculating what the damage should be and what the damage is.
WOW. SIMPLY WOW! I just got some FUNKY numbers. I went through and cast my pets wraith against Eyus Maximus and his minion. first with my equipments bonus (45%) then one by one cast a bonus damage spell without my gear on so i ran down each spell one by one till i went through all my spells. This math is FUNKY people!
The layout is Spell: what the math comes out to : Damage spell did 1.Equipment bonus 45%:833.75:833 Rounds down to nearest whole 2.Spirit Trap 25%:718.75:719 Rounded UP?????? 3.Death Trap from Bastilla's Deadly Choker 35%:776.25:775 lost 1.25?? 4.Death Trap 30%:747.5:746 lost 1.5??? 5.Death Blade 40%:805:804 lost 1 point? 6.Spirit Blade 35%:776.25:775 lost 1.25? 7.Feint 70%:977.5:977 Rounded down 8.Curse 20%:690:690 No change?
So if you look at my equipment bonus it rounded down to nearest whole but for spirit trap it had the same .75 on it and it rounded up instead. and on 3 4 5 and 6 it didnt just round down it flat out took 1 damage away. I Hypothesized it would just round down all numbers to the nearest whole but to see a round up as well as a flat out took away 1 was astonishing to me.
Well, that truly is an error there. that's just really strange with whole points going missing, because even rounding doesn't account for that. i'm at a loss...
I ran the numbers 3 times over and every result mimicked the original data that i gathered in the last set of tests. Flat out the math for the bonus damage isnt working. we simply are not getting a true bonus on anything but curse. I submitted a bug report and am awaiting a response.
Having my fiance help me with one spell i have also confirmed a error with damage calculation in fire and its worse here:
fire efreet 895 base damage armor 41%:1261.95:1255 thats a 6.95 loss. I did not have her test the rest of her buffs like i did for my death char but this confirms to me NONE of us are dealing the damage we are actually supposed to be dealing with out buffing spells and equipment on.
If 2 classes are not calculating properly i can only assume the rest are not calculating right either. i would need to make all the other classes and using a fixed damage spell and either gear or a trap spell calculating what it should be and what it is and i dont feel like doing all that when the point is pretty clear here already. Man if i was still in college this would have been an A+ discovery for both my math and programming classes.
I think I've got it. With that last post I tried something weird and I'll tell you now the result was 6990.4. I'm going to try to explain as best as I can.
I ordered them in this order: Armor, Death blade, Spirit blade, Spirit Trap, Death Trap(choker), Death trap, curse, Feint.
I went through and multiplied each to the total, but as I did, when I got to a place where you said it rounded, I took those rounded numbers (i.e. the 1.25 or the 1.5 that that you seem to have lost), multiplied those lost numbers by the boosts prior to them (but not including the boost that the lost occurred on), then subtracted it from the running total before continuing to multiply.
So for example when I got to the death trap, where you lost 1.5, I took 1.5*1.35*1.25*1.35*1.4*1.45 and subtracted that number from what I already had, then rounded down, until the last curse, where I rounded up before applying feint. I came up with 6990.4 and rounded up.
In short, I think it's taking those "lost numbers," amplifying them, and subtracting them. :D
My other message hasn't posted yet, but I didn't see your last two posts because they posted while I was writing my first post :P (say that five time, fast)
I too have noticed that damages don't do right in any school, but it goes unnoticed since most damages are ranges, and the lackluster damage can still fall in the range of the card.
Like I said in my last post, I think I've figured out where the majority of the loss is going, but it still doesn't answer why there is a loss in the first place.
I'd really love to see the actual equation that the computer goes through. I think we'd be able to see what's happening then. Unfortunately I don't think anyone from KI is going to give us that. :P I'm sure it's way more complicated than just the numbers on the cards.
@psychic987: I did the math like you have and came out to 6990.4 as well but that math is way out of what should be happening and makes no sense in any terms.
@Trasilor: Also yes the above damage chart was done first with armor and no other spells then the following damages were done with an individual spell without armor.
im still waiting for a reply from KI i dont want to see the math personally because i think ill just start seeing red flag after red flag of things that dont make sense. i just want an explanation of who made this formula and how in any way does it make sense to do it. I mean its A*B*C*D=X not A*B-(Z*Y)*C*D-(X*W)=?
Much ado about nothing, to be honest. But this is what happens when people play a game long enough...They start to look for problems that are not there.
There is one other issue nobody here is taking into consideration...A natural resist or boost. Just because a mob does not have "RESIST" plastered above his name does not mean some of the incoming damage is not being absorbed through a slight resistence.
In any case, identify the real issue. Is there one? Nope. The damage is still being reduced or summed as intended. You are still winning your fights (or losing as the case may be.)
If the game has become so boring to someone that it comes down to a numbers game, then perhaps they should try to get work at Tom's Hardware or some other benchmarking lab where numbers attempt to mean something.
If the game is that unfun at this point, then play another one for a while. Take a break. Get a job as a statistical analyst for a state lottery. But leave Wizard101 alone, lol!
Much ado about nothing, to be honest. But this is what happens when people play a game long enough...They start to look for problems that are not there.
There is one other issue nobody here is taking into consideration...A natural resist or boost. Just because a mob does not have "RESIST" plastered above his name does not mean some of the incoming damage is not being absorbed through a slight resistence.
In any case, identify the real issue. Is there one? Nope. The damage is still being reduced or summed as intended. You are still winning your fights (or losing as the case may be.)
If the game has become so boring to someone that it comes down to a numbers game, then perhaps they should try to get work at Tom's Hardware or some other benchmarking lab where numbers attempt to mean something.
If the game is that unfun at this point, then play another one for a while. Take a break. Get a job as a statistical analyst for a state lottery. But leave Wizard101 alone, lol!
Lol, talk about nonanswers... Why not just wear your starting armour and weapon the whole game then? You would still be having fights, winning or loosing as you quest.
We have equipment with various options with which to equip our toons with for the maximum benifits that a player wants. The Bizzar is full of items for sell which all offer different stats. The same with crafted or crown items. If the stats on items don't mean anything, then why should one spend gold or crowns on them? Gear stats mean something. If they didn't, they wouldn't be publishing stats on gear.
I've been playing another game for a year where it's really free to play; but, you pay to win. They have a lot more gear types and you have more choices. If you want a better toon, you do the calculations. There are formulas for their gear in the player base which are within 1% of actual game play. If KI wants our $$, their math should be accurate. If a player suggested formula is incorrect, they could point out the error/s without telling their actual formulas.
I am personally not that concerned personally; but, to see somebody say that players can't expect accurate stat calculations is sad. If this is the "state of the game," then I won't be here very long this visit.
Considering that the wraith card is a range like: 100-150, you will probably get a different hit every time. I would suggest using a fixed number hit card like Levy instead of one with a range.
Ok, say I had a heal that heals 100 points. I used sanctuary and guiding light sanctuary is +50% guiding light is +30%. 100+50%=150. 150+30%; lets break it up 100 plus 30% gives it a 30 point boost 50 plus 30% gives it a 15% boost so we add those together to get 45 point boost so it would actually boost by 95% to 195 points of healing.
Considering that the wraith card is a range like: 100-150, you will probably get a different hit every time. I would suggest using a fixed number hit card like Levy instead of one with a range.
All wraiths are fixed damge. 500 base 575 from wraith pet or mailister drakes armor.
Ok, say I had a heal that heals 100 points. I used sanctuary and guiding light sanctuary is +50% guiding light is +30%. 100+50%=150. 150+30%; lets break it up 100 plus 30% gives it a 30 point boost 50 plus 30% gives it a 15% boost so we add those together to get 45 point boost so it would actually boost by 95% to 195 points of healing.
100*1.5*1.3= healing. thats the easiest way to expalin the damage calculations now go test it and see if you actually heal for that.
Thank you for the defends too btw people. also my last post hasnt posted yest but when KI said professors apperently that is what they call their staff that works on wizards.
I am personally not that concerned personally; but, to see somebody say that players can't expect accurate stat calculations is sad. If this is the "state of the game," then I won't be here very long this visit.
The point being is that the real issue is that you don't understand how their math is being calculated, and they are not going to tell you their formulae.
Just because the numbers do not add up to what YOU think it should be, does not mean it is all not working as THEY intend. It is not like you are being "cheated" out of a damage bonus or subtraction. All I know is when I have two myth blades, two storm blades, two feints and a hex on a mob, and Medusa criticals for 49,990 damage, I am satisfied. I am not going to complain that it should have been 50,950 damage.
There is a difference between accuracy and hyper-accuracy. Expecting everything to be hyper-accurate when you don't understand all the mechanics of the game engine is unrealistic. So your math shows numbers to be off by some degree. Big deal! It still works!
I am personally not that concerned personally; but, to see somebody say that players can't expect accurate stat calculations is sad. If this is the "state of the game," then I won't be here very long this visit.
The point being is that the real issue is that you don't understand how their math is being calculated, and they are not going to tell you their formulae.
Just because the numbers do not add up to what YOU think it should be, does not mean it is all not working as THEY intend. It is not like you are being "cheated" out of a damage bonus or subtraction. All I know is when I have two myth blades, two storm blades, two feints and a hex on a mob, and Medusa criticals for 49,990 damage, I am satisfied. I am not going to complain that it should have been 50,950 damage.
There is a difference between accuracy and hyper-accuracy. Expecting everything to be hyper-accurate when you don't understand all the mechanics of the game engine is unrealistic. So your math shows numbers to be off by some degree. Big deal! It still works!
Dear 12 post- 3 month expert,
Math is math and numbers are exact without emotion. It is not really difficult to determine game mechanics within a small error percentage. Just because you can not understand this and don't understand how it effects your gear and game play is no reason to post. This thread is about how things work. If you haven't gone far enough in school to understand how to add facts to this thread, try "post count +1," as that make more sense in your failed trolling attempt.
When you get to the point where you add $40+ on a weekend to restat your toon and regear, you may have an idea as to why stats matter. As a note, I have over 40 years working in the high tech industry and have a firm grasp on math you might concider "rocket scientry." I find your comments about my lack of education and game mechanics as resorting to name calling. I would guess your age from you posts as a young teen, so I will refrain from telling you what I actually think of your posts. Let's just say I have more time killing mobs on line than you have been alive.
Either add to the facts or start another thread on how OP you think your toon is.
I am personally not that concerned personally; but, to see somebody say that players can't expect accurate stat calculations is sad. If this is the "state of the game," then I won't be here very long this visit.
The point being is that the real issue is that you don't understand how their math is being calculated, and they are not going to tell you their formulae.
Just because the numbers do not add up to what YOU think it should be, does not mean it is all not working as THEY intend. It is not like you are being "cheated" out of a damage bonus or subtraction. All I know is when I have two myth blades, two storm blades, two feints and a hex on a mob, and Medusa criticals for 49,990 damage, I am satisfied. I am not going to complain that it should have been 50,950 damage.
There is a difference between accuracy and hyper-accuracy. Expecting everything to be hyper-accurate when you don't understand all the mechanics of the game engine is unrealistic. So your math shows numbers to be off by some degree. Big deal! It still works!
Dear 12 post- 3 month expert,
Math is math and numbers are exact without emotion. It is not really difficult to determine game mechanics within a small error percentage. Just because you can not understand this and don't understand how it effects your gear and game play is no reason to post. This thread is about how things work. If you haven't gone far enough in school to understand how to add facts to this thread, try "post count +1," as that make more sense in your failed trolling attempt.
When you get to the point where you add $40+ on a weekend to restat your toon and regear, you may have an idea as to why stats matter. As a note, I have over 40 years working in the high tech industry and have a firm grasp on math you might concider "rocket scientry." I find your comments about my lack of education and game mechanics as resorting to name calling. I would guess your age from you posts as a young teen, so I will refrain from telling you what I actually think of your posts. Let's just say I have more time killing mobs on line than you have been alive.
Either add to the facts or start another thread on how OP you think your toon is.
I am personally not that concerned personally; but, to see somebody say that players can't expect accurate stat calculations is sad. If this is the "state of the game," then I won't be here very long this visit.
The point being is that the real issue is that you don't understand how their math is being calculated, and they are not going to tell you their formulae.
Just because the numbers do not add up to what YOU think it should be, does not mean it is all not working as THEY intend. It is not like you are being "cheated" out of a damage bonus or subtraction. All I know is when I have two myth blades, two storm blades, two feints and a hex on a mob, and Medusa criticals for 49,990 damage, I am satisfied. I am not going to complain that it should have been 50,950 damage.
There is a difference between accuracy and hyper-accuracy. Expecting everything to be hyper-accurate when you don't understand all the mechanics of the game engine is unrealistic. So your math shows numbers to be off by some degree. Big deal! It still works!
Dear 12 post- 3 month expert,
Math is math and numbers are exact without emotion. It is not really difficult to determine game mechanics within a small error percentage. Just because you can not understand this and don't understand how it effects your gear and game play is no reason to post. This thread is about how things work. If you haven't gone far enough in school to understand how to add facts to this thread, try "post count +1," as that make more sense in your failed trolling attempt.
When you get to the point where you add $40+ on a weekend to restat your toon and regear, you may have an idea as to why stats matter. As a note, I have over 40 years working in the high tech industry and have a firm grasp on math you might concider "rocket scientry." I find your comments about my lack of education and game mechanics as resorting to name calling. I would guess your age from you posts as a young teen, so I will refrain from telling you what I actually think of your posts. Let's just say I have more time killing mobs on line than you have been alive.
Either add to the facts or start another thread on how OP you think your toon is.
Alas. When people resort to posting smarmy insults and take things personally to the point where they feel the need to get all egoiste, even after they have posted that they are not taking it personally, it devolves into a flame war. This is inevitable. I am surprised the moderators let your post go through, what with your intimations about what you may or may not know about a fellow poster.
In my "12-post and 3-month expertise", as you put it, I predict that this thread will be locked rather soon. It takes people great refrain from wanting to "chime in" on what they think of a conversation that has gone this awry, and with this insight, I decalre this thread to be closed right quick.
A shame, because while in the end it really was just a bunch of whining about exacting numbers and invoked my refutation that trying to figure a game out to the seventh decimal point is pointless and detracts from the game's enjoyment, and that that energy could have been much better spent trying to instead, perhaps, figure out the best spell combos for a given situation, people might have learned a little bit more about how damage calculations work.
But no, the online armchair warriors must ruin it for everybody.
