I would like to start off by saying thanks to the creators of this game. Very well done and while it is easy to learn still throws enough challenges to make it very interesting! I have not been playing long but there are already a few things that are starting to bug me.
First off I totally understand that this game was designed with kids in mind but I think you need to realize that it is quickly becoming more and more populated by folks older then the targeted age. With that being said we turn to the chat system. The fact that the accounts with restricted chat functions need to be your friend to chat makes for anywhere from 5 - 10 friend requests every couple of minutes or so. While I understand this isn't their faults (kids) it can be very annoying.
Second is that while I get the chat filtering system it is so sensitive that it makes for tough times during intense battles when you are trying to let your team know what you have or how many of that card you have and so on and so fourth. For example I was trying to let my team know that I needed them to wait while I went to the restroom. The word restroom was filtered but at the same time a few minutes earlier I saw some kids in Wizard City talking about how they were total "pot" heads. I know that it could just be an attempt to be funny referring to the potions it still gets frustrating!
I truly think that because of the wide popularity among older player such as myself that there should be maybe some realms or servers that are for adult accounts only and can be a little more loose when it comes to the chat. One of the ways to make this possible is through the My Accounts option on this site. You could allow certain accounts or even Wizards themselves allowed in these realms... Or better yet if you have an account that have that special parental password maybe they would have to type in that password in order to enter that realm.
I really hope you take this seriously as it is beginning to be one of the only reasons I don't like playing. Other then that I think you guys have done a great job and wish all the success in the world for you!
Thanks,
Matthew LifeGiver Lvl 15 Life/Death/Undecided Wizard and all around good guy! :-)
First off.. I totally agree with you. Different realms that allowed us to talk would be nice.
So in reponse.. I had a long topic with around four things in it.. one being the crummy chat system.
here's what I posted about the chat system:
Could We Talk Please? I know this is a game mainly designed for kids.. but we can hardly speak! Maybe a censor could be brought in rather then what it seems to be.. a small dictionary of words to say. As I said it was mainly designed for kids.. well then it shouldn't be a problem. If they're young then they probably won't be using the normal chatting system. Maybe some users could have the option to read and say whatever they want with the exception of things that should be blocked? But I mean we can't even say numbers! This is how we say numbers actually. "One. To. Tree. For. Fifth. Sixth. Seventh" and so on. That's ridiculous. You can't say so many simple words such as names of food. I was trying to say "egg roll" once. You know how I said it? "Chickens lay them. Roll" Or "eggo waffles." That came out as "Eggo pan cakes. But replace pan cakes with another similiar bread type thing you eat for breakfast." I think to be able to just say more in this game would be very helpful when it comes to friendly communicating with other players =]
but yes, I do agree with the fact we should have realms to say more.. or just expand what we can say.
It would be nice to have a realm for 18+ players that allowed for unrestricted chat options, and perhaps even some end-game raiding content like other adult MMORPGS.
Yeah I like that! Maybe like an age restricted realm, maybe? Or maybe a new "level" of filter* for the older players. Where as this filter blocks out words it DOESN'T know (I think), the filter for older players would block out the words, phrases, or signs it DOES know...and we know what words i mean.
This way would put a lot of trust in the older players, hoping that they wouldn't use word combinations of the ugly variety, but at the same time that's what the report button is for, no?
*This new level of filter wouldn't be see-able by the younger players, just like the way the current filter isn't seen by younger players (Again, i think i read a post on this)
I'm sorry, I'm rambling. I like your idea though, good post too.
First off, try using more paragraphs, It makes long posts easier to read. Don't make me go find my Great Wall of Text and one-shot you with it.
The problem is that if you allow unfiltered chat, there will be young kids who manage to get access to it, even though their parents don't want them to.
A lot of games use the blacklist approach to filter chat, and it doesn't really work. There are too many ways to misspell the words that should be filtered. If "abcd" should be filtered, someone will say "ab cd" or "ab.cd" or "abbcd" or too many other variants to block them all. If one of the selling points of the game is that young children will be protected from obscene chat, a blacklist approach doesn't work.
That said, while the whitelist approach to acceptable words is sound in theory, in practice, the dictionary is far too small. Having to fish around for synonyms once every sentence or so is a nuisance. (Challenge: try to find a synonym for "synonym" that the game won't block.) Blocking words that have a slang use for something potentially offensive is understandable. Blocking lots of words just because they're not among the most commonly used words in the English language is not. Most parents would be proud to know that their kid can use "diffeomorphism" in a meaningful sentence--even if their kid is 40. (Okay, so I don't really expect that obscure of words to be put into the dictionary.)
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On another topic, please, no raiding. Raiding would destroy the pvp system before it even has a chance. There are quite enough games where pvp consists of "whoever has the most free time to go raiding wins". We don't need another one. Turning a game based on the premise that you don't have to schedule your life around the game to be competitive into that would be particularly egregious.
First off, try using more paragraphs, It makes long posts easier to read. Don't make me go find my Great Wall of Text and one-shot you with it.
The problem is that if you allow unfiltered chat, there will be young kids who manage to get access to it, even though their parents don't want them to.
A lot of games use the blacklist approach to filter chat, and it doesn't really work. There are too many ways to misspell the words that should be filtered. If "abcd" should be filtered, someone will say "ab cd" or "ab.cd" or "abbcd" or too many other variants to block them all. If one of the selling points of the game is that young children will be protected from obscene chat, a blacklist approach doesn't work.
That said, while the whitelist approach to acceptable words is sound in theory, in practice, the dictionary is far too small. Having to fish around for synonyms once every sentence or so is a nuisance. (Challenge: try to find a synonym for "synonym" that the game won't block.) Blocking words that have a slang use for something potentially offensive is understandable. Blocking lots of words just because they're not among the most commonly used words in the English language is not. Most parents would be proud to know that their kid can use "diffeomorphism" in a meaningful sentence--even if their kid is 40. (Okay, so I don't really expect that obscure of words to be put into the dictionary.)
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On another topic, please, no raiding. Raiding would destroy the pvp system before it even has a chance. There are quite enough games where pvp consists of "whoever has the most free time to go raiding wins". We don't need another one. Turning a game based on the premise that you don't have to schedule your life around the game to be competitive into that would be particularly egregious.
I completely understand what you are saying about the kids might still be able to access it but if those particular realms were blocked with the parental password system then if they were to access it wouldn't it be the parents fault at that point? What I mean by that is if they are concerned enough about the content to begin with then wouldn't they monitor what they were playing? Also if they did access that realm without the parents permission then they got the password from them which would tell me that the parents aren't so concerned to begin with right? Either way I apologize for the no paragraphs issue , I was just on a roll in my mind and wasn't concerned by that. You make a good point and while what I say may not be a perfect solution I do think it would help ease some frustrations among older gamers!
One being the realm idea.. and the other being a new type of filter.
That would be nice too.
Like how we have two kinds now.. the one where you can only use and read menu chat and the one with the whitelist of words. Adding a new one.. like someone said.. it'd work like the others do. If you didn't have your account set for the one with maybe a blacklist then you wouldn't be able to read it and their messages would come out as if they were on your setting.
Or something if you can understand what I'm trying to say.
I am an adult and am being driven nuts by the constant friend requests. You tell them no and they continue over and over until you finally have to put them on ignore. It would be nice to be able to turn off accepting friend requests while keeping the ones you already have. This should be a simple code to put in the game. I do not want to add kids as friends and quite frankly I would not want any adult to add my kids on their friends list. Since safety seems to be a #1 priority for this game I think this added feature would really help.
KingsIsle Entertainment has developed Wizard101 to be an exciting and fun online experience for people of all ages. An important part of that is providing a safe environment for our young players, and that’s a responsibility we take seriously. To that end, we’ve implemented features specifically designed for player safety.
While developing Wizard101, we realized the style and content of the game would appeal to all ages. As a result of our young audience, we decided to incorporate safeguards that make online play a generally safe and positive experience (especially when dealing with other players).
Here is a way to prevent kid infiltration of "free-chat" sytems. You simply dont change anything in the first place. I am sure, as time goes on, Wizard101 will unfilter perfectly normal words, like they have done in the past.
In the past, the word "neat" was filtered. Now you can say it perfectly fine. There were other words that became unfiltered, and as soon as Wizard101 reaches a consensus (sp?) as to what words they will unfilter, they will unfilter those as well.
The chat system is a bit "restricting," but I will say it is fine as it is. You can still talk, and communicate just fine. While "battle talk" is even more restricting, perhaps Wizard101 will "loosen" it up in the future.
As for PvP/raiding, all one has to do is experience WoW to really understand where this is coming from.
If any raiding is involved, it needs to be kept SEPERATE from PvP. WoW merges PvP into raiding/character development, to the point where it nearly destroys end-game PvE. I have seen the smartest, and strongest players get rejected and declined from end-game communities for not having done PvP for weeks and months on end for rewards that made pre-endgame equipment look, well, very bad. That is actually the SOLE reason I had quit WoW.
(I was among those players that ended up being an outcast reject, because I refused to PvP for equipment. I, in turn, didnt have a future in WoW except watch people brag about their tier 4++++ gear. Once expansion was announced to come out (Wrath of the Lich King) I decided that it was my time to quit and move on. It was perhaps the best thing I had ever done.)
Since I am on this subject, I want to suggest to Wizard101 that the rewards given out in PvP do not overpower or off-set the balance of Raid/PvE equipment and/or spells. This will create an issue much like WoW has now. That issue also creates a huge rift between "player groups," splitting those that PvP and those that do not, and that can potentially destroy the game for some.
I understand the need for a filtered chat, and personally I have no problems with it. While it can get a bit difficult, at times, to communicate to other party members in a battle (such as trying to say "wait two rounds, so I can use Tempest), that difficulty is well worth it to protect the younger players.
However, I do have a problem with the "True Friends" option on Wizard101. I do not understand why this is still a filtered chat.
When sending a text chat to someone in game only you and the other intended player can see what is being written. When this is a friend you have made through the course of the game censoring it is perfectly understandable. Someone you don't know, and only "met" through battling together in Sunken City, can easily claim to be in their thirties when they are, in fact, twelve.
However, since the "True Friend Code" can only be given to someone outside the confines of Wizard101 (try typing a code like "FQ239DX" in chat), it stands to reason that the person to whom you are giving the code is someone you have a relationship with outside the game.
For example, a close friend of mine got me started on the game. This is someone I have no reason to filter my chat with. If I give him the "True Friend Code" it would prove to the Professors/Administrators that we are friends outside the game. Therefore, if any chatting we did was more on the friendly level (such as something as mundane as saying "hey, pick me up at 3:45 tomorrow") would there be a problem?
As it stands now, the "True Friend Code" doesn't seem to serve a purpose. It allows no added benefits, and doesn't really help to distinguish who our real friends are as opposed to our only-Wizard101 friends.
LOL.. we type like cave men with this chat system. I understand it is meant for kids safety but my god this chat need an option for older players. I don't know how it can be done but you all can try.
Actually, I have little problem with the chat system as it now stands. If anything it has made me rekindle my relationship with spelling and creative writing. LOL.
However, I do have some problems with the chat system as it stands. while I understand why numbers are not seen, it can present a problem in simple game discussion. It is clear that the chat filter is more than simply a dictionary with few words. For instance you cannot say girlfriend even by placing a space between the words. That being the case, why not allow numbers when given as a digit for at least being able to tell a friend in text that I am now level 20. As it is, if I really find it necessary to tell them such information I have to port to their location to use the select-a-phrase chat system.
I do commend your desire to keep children safe, but isn't that what the button chat does?
While I admire and envy the Wizard101 teams' devotion to a safe environment for children and adolescents to play, I am considerably less envious of the lack of accommodation for the older and of age set of players.
As a fellow web/software developer, it is not all that hard to implement features to accommodate varying degrees of customer bases. What is hard however is the manpower and time necessary to get it done, and done right. I am guessing Wizard101 has a small handful of developers that work on the game in general.
With that out of the way, I agree (verified) adults should be allowed to say whatever they want. What they say can be seen public but filtered like it is now. What we say to each other is not filtered or censored, unless the recipient has turned on censorship which is more relaxed than the full on filtering we have now, but cuts out a dictionary of obvious foul language.
I think one idea of implementing the "tiered" chat filtering system would be: to simply allow the account holder to unlock filtered tier, then unlock censored tier. The end result is unfiltered/uncensored chat which can only be attained by the account manager. If a kid made it into uncensored social territory, they are either genius hackers, or their parents don't care if they see dirty or vulgar language or innuendos. The liability should be the account holders, not the company. If the company chases it's own tail religiously implementing more to filter out the clever things people will say, then eventually people will wander off to other games where they have more freedom of speech (no pun on the american constitution intended).
Honestly, I do not believe for a second that "adults" seem to adamant about free chatting because of the inability to write numbers. I just dont believe it. Let me translate this into what it really "seems" to be.
The biggest issue seems to be:
Why cant I curse and mispell and write whatever the heck I want? From previous experience in mmo's, people seem to WANT to butcher words and curse as if its their very lifeline at the stake. Another reason why kids in online games such as ffxi and wow turn out so foulmouthed and disrespectful.
As I have said before in a previous reply, keep things as they are now. There is no need for a "tiered" or a "different server" for adult players who just want to revert to their chatting style. That would eliminate even the slightest chance for any kid even accidentally hitting an uncensored server, and eliminate any problems and can and will result from this.
Also, now that I think of it, it makes adults, or those who THINK they are adults, to write correctly, in proper english, and merely enforce correct typing. As far as I know, chat filter still does not allow the random butchering of english words for the sake of writing faster. I can write faster spelling correctly than someone deliberately mispelling them.
It also makes people talk in a much friendlier way, which will make them players sound nicer than they actually might be. Which should only be a plus for them. They should thanking Wizard101 for this.
Speaking as a Mature Adult -- I find that cursing only shows the ignorance, lack of intelligence & vocabulary, and immaturity of the author.
Being part of an all Adult group within the game I can honestly say that the addition of "one" to our lexicon has been a huge topic of in game discussion and we can not wait for the rest of them.
Many of us are tired of saying Third or Tree when we mean Three/3.
Why cant I curse and mispell and write whatever the heck I want? From previous experience in mmo's, people seem to WANT to butcher words and curse as if its their very lifeline at the stake. Another reason why kids in online games such as ffxi and wow turn out so foulmouthed and disrespectful.
No, that's not the issue at all. I very rarely get things I say filtered in other games, and when I do, it's usually stupid things such as Sony deciding that the words "black" and "white" should be filtered or Guild Wars filtering the name of a couple of the NPCs in the game.
I'm not against the idea of a whitelist chat system. My problem with it is that the dictionary is too small. Having to try two or three synonyms before I can find one that the game will take about once per sentence or so is a nuisance.
For example, your post above is hardly the sort of offensive statement that needs to be blocked. Let's run it through the Wizard101 filter to see what happens.
Shiningfantasia wrote:
Honestly, I do not believe for a second that ... seem to adamant about free chatting because of the ... to write numbers. I just dont believe it. Let me translate this into what it really ... to be.
The biggest issue seems to be:
Why cant I curse and ... and write whatever the heck I want? From previous experience in ..., people seem to WANT to ... words and curse as if its their very lifeline at the stake. Another reason why kids in online games such as ... and wow turn out so ... and ...
As I have said before in a previous reply, keep things as they are now. There is no need for a ... or a ... for adult players who just want ... their chatting style. That would eliminate even the ... chance for any kid even accidentally hitting an ... server, and eliminate any problems and can and will result from this.
Also, now that I think of it, it makes adults, or those who THINK they are adults, to write correctly, in proper english, and merely enforce correct typing. As far as I know, chat filter still does not allow the random ... of english words for the sake of writing faster. I can write faster spelling correctly than someone ... them.
It also makes people talk in a much ... way, which will make them players sound ... than they actually might be. Which should only be a plus for them. They should thanking Wizard101 for this.
The filter even let you get away with a couple of misspellings and several grammar errors, but your post still comes out as incomprehensible. The problem is not the post but the filter.
Glancing through this I feel rather compelled to say something since the debate seems to continue.
Creating any sort of tier chat is only going to protect the kids who don't try to do this sort of thing in the first place, or who are new to the idea. How are you going to verify adults? I promise you, any kid over the age of twelve who wants to get into that chat will be able to find in their mom's purse whatever it is you want for verification.
We're dealing with people signing up online, you don't have any real checks to insure what they are telling you is the truth. That's why trying to setup a verification process doesn't work. Unless of course you want to go and meet them.
For instance you have no way of telling that anyone on this forum posting about wizard 101 is an adult. Could be a kid trying to get a work around so they can swear and prove they could do it.
I worked for a social networking site, and the biggest issue we had with abuse is we needed to find ways to prove someone had actually guessed someone's password and changed the site. Because we can't take someone's word for it, because that is a way to password steal, get the tech support people to give it to you.
If you want more words approved, start a thread to that effect. Words you found censored that you don't think should be censored. Then the mods can look at the list and debate the addition of the words, or even way in to let you know why some words are censored. Such as numbers so kids can't give out personal information or maybe because they see no reason for you to need to type bacon when they made the list.
Then at least you can exchange with them on the validity or usefulness of the word in question.
I agree with the op. The typing for numbers as tree or too gets annoying when you are trying to type quickly. I find it amusing how words like "restroom" are banned but "pot" is not.
I wasn't even able to tell my fellow adult friends that I was in "nursing" school. Didn't realize my soon to be career was a bad word!!
Actually, I have little problem with the chat system as it now stands. If anything it has made me rekindle my relationship with spelling and creative writing. LOL.
However, I do have some problems with the chat system as it stands. while I understand why numbers are not seen, it can present a problem in simple game discussion. It is clear that the chat filter is more than simply a dictionary with few words. For instance you cannot say girlfriend even by placing a space between the words. That being the case, why not allow numbers when given as a digit for at least being able to tell a friend in text that I am now level 20. As it is, if I really find it necessary to tell them such information I have to port to their location to use the select-a-phrase chat system.
I do commend your desire to keep children safe, but isn't that what the button chat does?
you don't need to port just choose the menu chat option on your friend list
Honestly, I do not believe for a second that "adults" seem to adamant about free chatting because of the inability to write numbers. I just dont believe it. Let me translate this into what it really "seems" to be.
The biggest issue seems to be:
Why cant I curse and mispell and write whatever the heck I want? From previous experience in mmo's, people seem to WANT to butcher words and curse as if its their very lifeline at the stake. Another reason why kids in online games such as ffxi and wow turn out so foulmouthed and disrespectful.
As I have said before in a previous reply, keep things as they are now. There is no need for a "tiered" or a "different server" for adult players who just want to revert to their chatting style. That would eliminate even the slightest chance for any kid even accidentally hitting an uncensored server, and eliminate any problems and can and will result from this.
Also, now that I think of it, it makes adults, or those who THINK they are adults, to write correctly, in proper english, and merely enforce correct typing. As far as I know, chat filter still does not allow the random butchering of english words for the sake of writing faster. I can write faster spelling correctly than someone deliberately mispelling them.
It also makes people talk in a much friendlier way, which will make them players sound nicer than they actually might be. Which should only be a plus for them. They should thanking Wizard101 for this.
all well and good when you are talking about someone who can spell correctly. I have a learning dissability i miss spell, not intentionaly, but because i see things in a different order. Thankfully i have friends in game that don't mind the fill in the blank typing that i do. that said my boss says my writing has improved since i started playing lol
Speaking as a Mature Adult -- I find that cursing only shows the ignorance, lack of intelligence & vocabulary, and immaturity of the author.
Being part of an all Adult group within the game I can honestly say that the addition of "one" to our lexicon has been a huge topic of in game discussion and we can not wait for the rest of them.
Many of us are tired of saying Third or Tree when we mean Three/3.
ok here i go becoming my mother "Cursing only shows your lack of education" and here i will steal from a favorit auther Piers Anthony " the adult conspiracy is to keep all things of interest from kids" those of us old enough to be part of the adult concperacy should be proud to uphold it
Sorry to push this thread up but I guess it's the best thread to post for me!
I am from Austria and a friend of me is from Germany and it's really hard to communicate if you can't speak english because the filter only accept english words. It's no problem for me and my friend because we can communicate in english but sometimes it's annoying because - and I think everyone thinks so - we want to talk in our motherlanguage and I don't understand why we are not allowed to speak OUR language?
I like the idea with the "Adult" Realm and you can easily protect it with an password which could be send to your "Parent E-Mail" or parents can set it short after they paid with the credit card!
I love this game and I will play it even if I cant speak in my motherlanguage but it would be a step forward if you could somehow add such a parent server!
I agree 100% about having an adult realm. Make it an option that can be set, much like allowing text chat.
I have found that many adults play this game, and it's just silly to force us to use an overly filtered chat like we're actors in a "Leave it to Beaver" episode, or that makes us sound mentally challenged. As for using the chat system to force better English usage - that's hogwash. This is a game with time limits, and shorthand/slang makes it all go faster. I'm not writing a thesis while playing this game, I'm trying to get my point across quickly.
I personally do not condone foul language, and I do not wish to have unfiltered chat just so I can curse. I would, however, LOVE to be able to have a NORMAL conversation with other adults. Conversing with your Wizard friends adds a lot to the game, and the feeling of team play. Having conversations and getting to know the people you play with makes a world of difference for my MMO gaming experience. Being able to converse in a coherent fashion (and being able to use numbers) will help with this, will save time, and will avoid confusion.
Will people log into that realm and act like idiots? Sure. Will people go in there and use the foulest language imaginable? Sure, if you let them. Block the really offensive words, and let us go about our business. Will kids find ways to get in? Sure, but that is the parent's responsibility to keep their parental password safe. Will some people be offended by what they hear there? Sure, but no one would be forcing them to return to that realm.
To look at this from a marketing standpoint, having a safe environment for kids is great. They have their "safe" environment with the current chat system. BUT, the adults have the money. Making it more appealing to adults can only bring in more cash flow. It would be the best of both worlds, or at least as good as it can be made.
