Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
Dear Kingsisle, I have been playing Wizard101 for about 11 years now. I want to address the fact that I was given a warning that I believe is unfair. I was reported twice in the last three days and then I received a warning that I could be muted. The first report I believe was fair as I used a cuss and I understand this and I will not use that in the future. However, I was reported for using the word "lesbian" when talking to a fellow member of the LGBT community by somebody not in our conversation. I think the fact that the words gay, lesbian, bi, etc. are banned and considered to be bad even within open chat is rather unnecessary. Wizard101 has a large community of LGBT+ players and I think that banning those words puts a negative connotation around them which is wrong and disrespectful to members of the LGBT+ community. So while I'm not asking to have this warning taken away, I am asking that words like gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. are not considered to be punishable and should not be banned words, at least not in open chat. This game has been a huge part of my life and I would love to see this change be made! Thank you for being in my life for so long and I truly hope that you take what I say into consideration!
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
xxLifeWingsxx on Jun 11, 2020 wrote:
Dear Kingsisle, I have been playing Wizard101 for about 11 years now. I want to address the fact that I was given a warning that I believe is unfair. I was reported twice in the last three days and then I received a warning that I could be muted. The first report I believe was fair as I used a cuss and I understand this and I will not use that in the future. However, I was reported for using the word "lesbian" when talking to a fellow member of the LGBT community by somebody not in our conversation. I think the fact that the words gay, lesbian, bi, etc. are banned and considered to be bad even within open chat is rather unnecessary. Wizard101 has a large community of LGBT+ players and I think that banning those words puts a negative connotation around them which is wrong and disrespectful to members of the LGBT+ community. So while I'm not asking to have this warning taken away, I am asking that words like gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. are not considered to be punishable and should not be banned words, at least not in open chat. This game has been a huge part of my life and I would love to see this change be made! Thank you for being in my life for so long and I truly hope that you take what I say into consideration!
Hi LifeWings! This is a great question and I'm glad you asked it because it's something we've been wanting to talk to the community more about.
There's several reasons for the current moderation needs we'll have more to say in the weeks ahead.
For now, let us know what you would like to see added that allows you to equally express yourselves and still fit the game's immersive themes. We are absolutely open to suggestions!
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
Chat should be age appropriate for whom the game is advertised for - the kids, 10+. Such conversation should be discussed in each individual's home first, with those kids parents. However, 10 year old wizards shouldn't have open chat (although many do).
I'd like to be able to type my religion. Or the word ''religion" for that matter, lol.
Just be careful KI that you're not opening a can of worms. Some conversations should be okay to have in a child's game, while some topics are not.
One might like to be able to type where they come from. Or ones age, etc. KI, just remember why such safety precautions were implemented in the first place. The question the op poses is, why is it so bad to say such words? And the reason should be, to protect the young from predators.
Here's some similar discussions that could be discussed: Religion = should be okay / orientation = might be inappropriate for 10 yr old's / location = not okay prolly / language = might require an interpreter / politics = yikes!
Yesterday I was in a team up and a player was shouting we all need to repent and believe in his religion or we don't go to heaven. It was highly inappropriate and next time this happens they are getting reported.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
xxLifeWingsxx on Jun 11, 2020 wrote:
Dear Kingsisle, I have been playing Wizard101 for about 11 years now. I want to address the fact that I was given a warning that I believe is unfair. I was reported twice in the last three days and then I received a warning that I could be muted. The first report I believe was fair as I used a cuss and I understand this and I will not use that in the future. However, I was reported for using the word "lesbian" when talking to a fellow member of the LGBT community by somebody not in our conversation. I think the fact that the words gay, lesbian, bi, etc. are banned and considered to be bad even within open chat is rather unnecessary. Wizard101 has a large community of LGBT+ players and I think that banning those words puts a negative connotation around them which is wrong and disrespectful to members of the LGBT+ community. So while I'm not asking to have this warning taken away, I am asking that words like gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. are not considered to be punishable and should not be banned words, at least not in open chat. This game has been a huge part of my life and I would love to see this change be made! Thank you for being in my life for so long and I truly hope that you take what I say into consideration!
Although I support LGBT people and their social right to express themselves openly, I feel that releasing these words to text or open chat isn't the way to go. You know these words can be used in a negative connotation. If you need to talk about these subjects, use friend chat ( private chat ), that way, no one will mistake you for using "bad" words and report you. Or even better, invite your LBGT ( & sympathetic friends ) to your house for some sharing talks.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
stemogstel on Jun 12, 2020 wrote:
Chat should be age appropriate for whom the game is advertised for - the kids, 10+. Such conversation should be discussed in each individual's home first, with those kids parents. However, 10 year old wizards shouldn't have open chat (although many do).
I'd like to be able to type my religion. Or the word ''religion" for that matter, lol.
Just be careful KI that you're not opening a can of worms. Some conversations should be okay to have in a child's game, while some topics are not.
One might like to be able to type where they come from. Or ones age, etc. KI, just remember why such safety precautions were implemented in the first place. The question the op poses is, why is it so bad to say such words? And the reason should be, to protect the young from predators.
Here's some similar discussions that could be discussed: Religion = should be okay / orientation = might be inappropriate for 10 yr old's / location = not okay prolly / language = might require an interpreter / politics = yikes!
Yesterday I was in a team up and a player was shouting we all need to repent and believe in his religion or we don't go to heaven. It was highly inappropriate and next time this happens they are getting reported.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
This game is designed for kids although many players are above that . Open Chat is not permission to speak about adult issues in a format designed for kid's.
LBGT, Politics, Religion, are not a mainstay of a child's world or view. An adult talking of subjects like these subject someone elses child to topics that the parent might not have gone over or feels they child should hear about.
So while i understand your opinion they are better places suited for such topics to be discussed. You play on a Pc you and your friend could talk freely for example in Discord while you played.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
stemogstel on Jun 12, 2020 wrote:
Chat should be age appropriate for whom the game is advertised for - the kids, 10+. Such conversation should be discussed in each individual's home first, with those kids parents. However, 10 year old wizards shouldn't have open chat (although many do).
I'd like to be able to type my religion. Or the word ''religion" for that matter, lol.
Just be careful KI that you're not opening a can of worms. Some conversations should be okay to have in a child's game, while some topics are not.
One might like to be able to type where they come from. Or ones age, etc. KI, just remember why such safety precautions were implemented in the first place. The question the op poses is, why is it so bad to say such words? And the reason should be, to protect the young from predators.
Here's some similar discussions that could be discussed: Religion = should be okay / orientation = might be inappropriate for 10 yr old's / location = not okay prolly / language = might require an interpreter / politics = yikes!
Yesterday I was in a team up and a player was shouting we all need to repent and believe in his religion or we don't go to heaven. It was highly inappropriate and next time this happens they are getting reported.
I think the very thing you mention is why religion isn't discussable on Wizard101. It is meant to be a child's game and one where you don't worry about what is going on in the real world. Most people (adults included) don't like to discuss politics or religion in real life, I don't see that as being productive in a game like Wizard101.
I come from the opposite perspective with the sexual orientation bit. I'm worried people will make fun of people if they decide to say that they're gay/trans/lesbian and use it as a derogatory term. Kids shouldn't be brought up with the idea that those terms are inherently bad, which is why I don't have much of an opinion whether this goes one way or another.
I.e. - it's good that people can express what they are freely, it's bad that other people can weaponize it and bully people on the platform. Religion is not an okay topic for a children's game. Some of it can also be blocked by the menu chat vs regular chat vs open chat.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
stemogstel on Jun 12, 2020 wrote:
Chat should be age appropriate for whom the game is advertised for - the kids, 10+. Such conversation should be discussed in each individual's home first, with those kids parents. However, 10 year old wizards shouldn't have open chat (although many do).
I'd like to be able to type my religion. Or the word ''religion" for that matter, lol.
Just be careful KI that you're not opening a can of worms. Some conversations should be okay to have in a child's game, while some topics are not.
One might like to be able to type where they come from. Or ones age, etc. KI, just remember why such safety precautions were implemented in the first place. The question the op poses is, why is it so bad to say such words? And the reason should be, to protect the young from predators.
Here's some similar discussions that could be discussed: Religion = should be okay / orientation = might be inappropriate for 10 yr old's / location = not okay prolly / language = might require an interpreter / politics = yikes!
Yesterday I was in a team up and a player was shouting we all need to repent and believe in his religion or we don't go to heaven. It was highly inappropriate and next time this happens they are getting reported.
That kind of sounds like you're saying that predators only use those LGBT words and not things like "straight" and that banning them is protecting the kids from the predators. I don't understand how you can justify that reasoning without inherently saying that you think all predators are LGBT.
I agree sexuality is not necessarily a topic for this kind of game, but its doesn't have to be that way, liking the same gender is not inherently sexual. Being gay can just as easily be having crushes or getting butterflies in your stomach when someone walks by.
I always thought things like "gay" were banned because they didn't want people using it to insult each other, which comes up in a lot of other games. As a gay guy, it doesn't bother me, but I can understand the tough position it puts these games in. On the one hand you don't want people demeaning each other in your game but on the other you don't want to imply being gay is a bad thing.
I think allowing the option to say these words to those with open chat is a fair compromise, that way, it is in the game for the people who supposedly want it and won't create any angry emails from parents. Will it let some 13 year old call me gay in a dungeon because he wants to hit? Sure. But to me that is a hell of a lot better than not being able to stand up for who I am and jump through hoops just to explain in text chat something about myself I can't control..
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
Does anyone here realize we cannot say "boyfriend" or "girlfriend"? So stop with the thinking that the game has an issue with only what you think it has an issue with.
And with religion, the game has no problem if it is theirs. Religion for others should be okay too.
As for those spewing what I wrote about in my previous post, I would prefer to report such a person as they can be influential over young ones whose parents let their kids play believing they are safe from such predators.
And when I say 'predators', this includes all sorts of those who prey. It includes location. Some read what I wrote not how it was intended, and likewise gave a response I am not understanding, because you are responding to something I did not say.
The only case one could make for not allowing religion is that someone might use it as some sort of insult. But then that goes into context and reportable. For instance, if someone said a derogatory term with a religion added, that is offensive and should be reportable. But someone just saying they cannot play on their religious day is not offensive.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
I cannot wrap my head around the responses in this thread, to imply that these words should not be added because of their potential to be derogatory or too grown up for children is ridiculous.
by saying this you are continuing the shut down of conversations of this "taboo" by saying "Oh well someone else might say this word in a negative way and that hurts feelings" you could say that about almost any word used to describe someone,
Should we remove the word "Fat"? how about "Disabled"? "Special"? How about "Mental"? These are all words in the current filter and I don't see anyone asking for them to be removed. The fact that LGBT words receive this proactive response while these other words don't honestly just shows how full of baloney that argument is.
Ok second point, LGBT is not appropriate for kids. You're gonna tell me that not once were you ever encouraged to or had a crush on the opposite gender in grade school? You're gonna sit here and tell me that it is impossible to make a distinction between concepts inappropriate for children and the underlying romantic feelings we all feel. When you had a crush on a boy or a girl in grade school did your parents start talking about doing it? About all these inappropriate things because you told them you had a crush?
No!
So why is it not possible to talk about boys having crushes on boys and girls having crushes on girls without getting into the dirty details and acting like its taboo.
The answer is it is completely possible and people in their adult brain cannot separate the inappropriate aspects from the underlying concept.
I'll leave you with this, lets say your friend, a guy, was dating a girl and that was the minority, with the current filter instead of just saying oh yea I'm straight he would have to say, something creepy in chat like "Girls are my favorite" because "I like girls" is banned. That is literally the reality for anyone LGBT
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
flamemanox5 on Jun 13, 2020 wrote:
That kind of sounds like you're saying that predators only use those LGBT words and not things like "straight" and that banning them is protecting the kids from the predators. I don't understand how you can justify that reasoning without inherently saying that you think all predators are LGBT.
I agree sexuality is not necessarily a topic for this kind of game, but its doesn't have to be that way, liking the same gender is not inherently sexual. Being gay can just as easily be having crushes or getting butterflies in your stomach when someone walks by.
I always thought things like "gay" were banned because they didn't want people using it to insult each other, which comes up in a lot of other games. As a gay guy, it doesn't bother me, but I can understand the tough position it puts these games in. On the one hand you don't want people demeaning each other in your game but on the other you don't want to imply being gay is a bad thing.
I think allowing the option to say these words to those with open chat is a fair compromise, that way, it is in the game for the people who supposedly want it and won't create any angry emails from parents. Will it let some 13 year old call me gay in a dungeon because he wants to hit? Sure. But to me that is a hell of a lot better than not being able to stand up for who I am and jump through hoops just to explain in text chat something about myself I can't control..
I agree. I think open chat is a good way to allow this. By then, people should be smart enough to know to use it correctly, or to ban/ignore the people who don't.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
No problem with any ones opinion on LBGT i added religion and politics as examples people most often in a social enviroment get heated over.
Never said or implied LBGT equaled predator. was stating this game by development and intention was designed to be safe place for kid's to play without outside world influence.
As an adult trying to take stand Lbgt rights are not being acknowledged cause you can't type certain words in a kid's game while having open chat is kind of Sad.
Secondly being an adult on a PC means you have the understanding like the rest of us do to be able to download Discord where you can not only type but speak your mind freely about all sorts of subjects.
The ingame chat setup is to curve all sorts of topics and speech ie.. no cuss words though i see people trying hard. Gay lesbian Bi are not harmful nor are they cuss words but they are also not part of every kids world.
The filters in place are not so much to protect against predators but to limit adult topics in game.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
I am OK with what some feel is "censorship."
Why? It's a game. It's a game many children are in.
It's a game containing players from all over the world, from many beliefs, backgrounds, and cultures, many of which might differ from what another group finds okay to discuss or express opinions about (good or bad.)
It's an escape from everyday realities.
All those words people want to say and feel would always be said in positive ways...wouldn't. Someone could just as easily use those words to insult people of those beliefs or persuasions. Now a child might be crying because his family or himself has just been insulted.
There are some things that are more powerful to use in that way. Beliefs, persuasions and affiliations might be among those topics or words. Politics are also included in this.
Is it not OK to have one place on the internet that is not having the same discussion? Don't people who want open voice chat also use a secondary program to voice on mic?
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
Perhaps most stuff that falls into the category of 'personal information' is not permitted, with the reason of protecting young wizards.
One might equally ask why are numbers not permissible. Locations. Religion - which totally should be! Countries are yellow. States are yellow, etc. I tested the filter and "I like boys" and "I like girls" are yellow. "I like boy" and "I like girl" are white. "I love boys" and "I love girl" are white. "German" is white. "We cannot even type "KI" (yellow). And we cannot even type the name "Mathew" (yellow) but can type it with 2 T's. I prefer the one T spelling.
Also, this is a game with avatars. No one knows who is on the other side (for the most part). The game frowns upon meeting on the internet outside the game, which is both odd and understandable. We are encouraged to visit game affiliated sites. Avatars allow secret identities, ie catfishing, lying, hiding who one truly is behind their wizard. Who is to be trusted? If you trust your friend(s), talk privately to them.
I get a feeling of uncomfortability when directing wizards where they can find info for the game (like youtube). I always consider what I am saying when talking out loud. The game gives us many options with our chat. If I am talking personal to someone, I whisper chat that person, or I group chat or chat channel. We can also talk in a house or dungeon. Although the game has punished some for their private chats (big brother). But what I am saying is, if people want to have a private conversation, do so privately. That will at least prevent from being reported from other wizards who can listen in.
I agree that any word can be used in a derogatory manner and that should not be any reasoning to not allow something to be said. There should be other reasonings why words are white vs yellow vs red. Perhaps it all falls under the category as protecting us from giving out personal information when we are not supposed to know the person on the other side of the computer. Perhaps rules were implemented when the game started over 10 years ago and things have changed since then. Once upon a time we were not allowed to type the wizardly name of "Finnigan", and typing "corgi" got everyone muted. And perhaps, there is some reason we are not privy to (which is why this topic is posed).
Sparck, you ask what words we'd like allowed in-game to express ourselves with. Well, I want "Jew" and "Jewish" to stop being red.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
My question is why do you feel the need to bring up subjects like sex, religion and politics in an "interactive cartoon" that was designed for kids?
This is a video game fantasy world, if you want to make some kind of difference in the real world; unplug and go join it. This isn't the Matrix, you're free to come & go as you please. You don't know if the person you're playing with is male, female, black, white, skinny, fat, one-armed, three-legged or a trained monkey; IT'S A CARTOON it's NOT REAL. Nobody really cares who or what you are, just play the game and enjoy it. If you're not interested enjoying the game and want to just stand in the commons and complain, gossip or talk trash, I'm sure there are other places you could go that would be better suited for you. I seriously doubt you would be missed.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
Quinntimidator on Jun 14, 2020 wrote:
Honestly, is this really a kids game anymore? If it were still a little kids game it would have died. I rarely run into kids anymore.
Yes, kids do still play this game. I have grandsons playing and I do allow them to have open chat. When we are not in the same house, open chat allows us to talk to each other and have fun. It is rather difficult to play and talk on a phone at the same time. Also, it allows parents on the child's end to see what we are talking about.
There are a few platforms that players can and do use to chat that do not put topics in the game that are not appropriate. KI has from the beginning had Terms in place to protect our kids from seeing what they shouldn't.
Personally, I don't care what your personal preferences are but I don't think a game is the place for topics of this nature or religion and politics. This is a game that people from many walks of life play.
If KI starts allowing some of the topics or foul language to be entered into open chat, they will also lose their rating of E 10+. I understand that a lot of kids hear this stuff in everyday life but I think a game should be one place they don't. A game like Wizard101 should be a place to have fun and forget about the real world for a little while.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
In a game for kids, filter must exist. I agree with many others in this thread.
Things like this are not essential to talk about in game. Orientation can easily get heated, and turn into a political talk. Not everyone has the same opinion surrounding the LGBT, and I would prefer to keep politics out of this game. These words can easily become insults, especially to those who don't know the meanings.
I have nothing against anyone in the LGBT community, but I think these things should be learned in the home rather than in an online game, even online in general. Plus, if people really have a desire to chat about these things, they can always download discord and share their tags so they can chat where the language is less restricted.
Anything related to religion, orientation, politics, and other controversial topics should not be in this game. This doesn't apply to only the LGBT either, straight individuals can't really talk about their love life in full either.
Do I think these words are wrong? No, of course not. But I think there's a place to talk about them, and a place that's not.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
Well, I’ve never run into your kids while playing and I bet the percentage of kids is low. This is largely a nostalgia game at this point. I frankly think the ban on numbers in a number/percentage based game is about the dumbest idea KI has ever had. The ham-fisted, ill-conceived approach to censorship in this game is laughable and incredibly detrimental to gameplay. I can type won, too, tree, for, fifth, sixth, etc, so they are preventing no one from doing anything, just frustrating the heck out of intelligent gamers. And in 11 years of playing, I have yet to have ever been asked for a phone number. Seems like a solution looking for a problem if you ask me.
FYI, you should look into using discord with your grandkids so you can talk to them without typing. It’s 2020 and they probably already are on it.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
A common argument here seems to be that it is inappropriate for children (which I do not agree with, but that is besides my point), but even then: Open Chat is intended for adults. There is even a built in protection (credit card requirement) to keep children from accessing it. There should be no problem in letting adults interact like that among themselves.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
Quinntimidator on Jun 21, 2020 wrote:
Well, I’ve never run into your kids while playing and I bet the percentage of kids is low. This is largely a nostalgia game at this point. I frankly think the ban on numbers in a number/percentage based game is about the dumbest idea KI has ever had. The ham-fisted, ill-conceived approach to censorship in this game is laughable and incredibly detrimental to gameplay. I can type won, too, tree, for, fifth, sixth, etc, so they are preventing no one from doing anything, just frustrating the heck out of intelligent gamers. And in 11 years of playing, I have yet to have ever been asked for a phone number. Seems like a solution looking for a problem if you ask me.
FYI, you should look into using discord with your grandkids so you can talk to them without typing. It’s 2020 and they probably already are on it.
Sorry, but discord is not going to be used with my grandsons and no, they don't have it. They are not teens and the use of TYPING also helps them learn spelling better.
But, as I have stated before, the E 10+ rating is something KI has to consider before allowing things of this nature to go uncensored.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
autrison12 on Jun 22, 2020 wrote:
A common argument here seems to be that it is inappropriate for children (which I do not agree with, but that is besides my point), but even then: Open Chat is intended for adults. There is even a built in protection (credit card requirement) to keep children from accessing it. There should be no problem in letting adults interact like that among themselves.
Inappropriate for children to learn or hear about in a game is correct......Some things should be left to the parents/guardians to decide WHEN and WHERE they learn it.
Yes, there is a built in protection, BUT if their accounts are connected to a parent/MASTER account, that choice is up to the parent/guardian to determine since that person is the one providing the CC.
There are MULTIPLE ways for ADULTS to interact by using other means such as was mentioned in a previous post. Discord is one of those and I know of a few others. But keep it out of a children's game.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
I agree with a lot of the other posters in this thread, the argument “it’s inappropriate for children” itself could be debated extensively and even then, open chat is meant for adults. I’ve had people I play with tell me about their children, their spouses, their jobs etc so I really don’t see how words describing your orientation are any different than the other vaguely personal things people chat about in-game.
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
DragonLady1818 on Jun 23, 2020 wrote:
Inappropriate for children to learn or hear about in a game is correct......Some things should be left to the parents/guardians to decide WHEN and WHERE they learn it.
Yes, there is a built in protection, BUT if their accounts are connected to a parent/MASTER account, that choice is up to the parent/guardian to determine since that person is the one providing the CC.
There are MULTIPLE ways for ADULTS to interact by using other means such as was mentioned in a previous post. Discord is one of those and I know of a few others. But keep it out of a children's game.
Ok, I can respect why you feel that way, Here's where you're losing me. Tell me why you think adults who have been confirmed with a CC should not be able to say these words to each other in open chat and should have to use third party programs?
Re: Why are words surrounding the LGBT banned and punishable?
People in game have been live chatting since the inception of the game, but they used chat apps. Those come in text only or video and easily fit onto a computer screen.
They are part of what allow this game to retain its E+10 rating. Got a problem with our E+10 rating Find another game simple; or complain to the people who created the various ratings.
Yes, I'm in a grouchy mood. If I wanted real life: i'd close down my computer and go outside into the real world
simple; or complain to the people who created the various ratings.