Ice isn't all defensive. Hurling all those taunts at enemies is offensive to me!
Taunts are really just supposed to make them get hit more because they have the most life. So you're really just emphasizing the "tank" name that helped start this.
The smilely faces at the end of my post was suppose to indicate that it was a joke. I was using the term offensive in it's other meaning. A rundown of what Taunt does can be found at the following link:
your Storm friend with global resist, what is their max health vs your max health and global resist? if their max is like 2400, with 40% global resist, they need to take 4000 points of damage to be killed. if your ice has 3800 health and 50% resist, someone needs to do 7600 damage to kill you. that's significant. now, i don't pvp, so i don't care, but the universal resist is a factor of your total health. i'm glad ice can do some damage on our side, however, so i just wanted to give the numbers so people don't complain about everyone else getting universal resist now. -eli and crew
I agree about how you health affects your resist a ton. If a around 2000 health storm had 50% resist then the resist would add only a 1000 to their health making it 3000 total health. With ice however, say they have 4000 health. with 50% resist that would add another 2000 larger than storms 1000. That would make ice's resist more useful then the storm's.
I've beaten ice and been beaten by ice in high level pvp. It's not the school that has gotten weak it was the strategy of blade, blade, blade let snow angel fly that has been defeated. Your damage boost you became accustomed to was the direct result of arena gear becoming useless in the arena. Before celestia everyone had resist in the arena gear, ice choosing to substitute for 48 gear sometimes. IMO KI made a big mistake with level 58 gear That showed face in the arena and something needed to be done. Maybe new arena gear will surface giving equal stats to warlords, ice will keep the only constant health base. Right now I think that the arena has never been more balanced and have many ice warlord friends that will agree. The days of a Pre packaged ice warlord are over, as far as PvE I don't see your argument.
I've beaten ice and been beaten by ice in high level pvp. It's not the school that has gotten weak it was the strategy of blade, blade, blade let snow angel fly that has been defeated. Your damage boost you became accustomed to was the direct result of arena gear becoming useless in the arena. Before celestia everyone had resist in the arena gear, ice choosing to substitute for 48 gear sometimes. IMO KI made a big mistake with level 58 gear That showed face in the arena and something needed to be done. Maybe new arena gear will surface giving equal stats to warlords, ice will keep the only constant health base. Right now I think that the arena has never been more balanced and have many ice warlord friends that will agree. The days of a Pre packaged ice warlord are over, as far as PvE I don't see your argument.
*sigh* It appears that few do. I don't know how many times I can say this isn't about stats. I'm well aware of arena gear. But that's arena gear which stays in the arena and which also isn't customized for a particular school. If this was about PvP, or about something I felt was mathematically out of balance for PvP, I'd have started this thread there. I did not. This is about the school of ice becoming flavorless. Its about everyone being able to tank now. It particularly applies outside of PvP where everything isn't supposed to be about beating your opponent and using every trick in the book to do so. I'm at a loss as to what else to say to get people to understand.
I've beaten ice and been beaten by ice in high level pvp. It's not the school that has gotten weak it was the strategy of blade, blade, blade let snow angel fly that has been defeated. Your damage boost you became accustomed to was the direct result of arena gear becoming useless in the arena. Before celestia everyone had resist in the arena gear, ice choosing to substitute for 48 gear sometimes. IMO KI made a big mistake with level 58 gear That showed face in the arena and something needed to be done. Maybe new arena gear will surface giving equal stats to warlords, ice will keep the only constant health base. Right now I think that the arena has never been more balanced and have many ice warlord friends that will agree. The days of a Pre packaged ice warlord are over, as far as PvE I don't see your argument.
*sigh* It appears that few do. I don't know how many times I can say this isn't about stats. I'm well aware of arena gear. But that's arena gear which stays in the arena and which also isn't customized for a particular school. If this was about PvP, or about something I felt was mathematically out of balance for PvP, I'd have started this thread there. I did not. This is about the school of ice becoming flavorless. Its about everyone being able to tank now. It particularly applies outside of PvP where everything isn't supposed to be about beating your opponent and using every trick in the book to do so. I'm at a loss as to what else to say to get people to understand.
I believe I understand where your coming from....ice has lost it's flavor, no more cherry or blueberry Icees right? Okay, no more joking.
Myth has minions, Death has Health Stealing, Life is the best at healing, Fire has awesome Dots, Storm does the most damage, Balance is all around, and Ice use to be the game's tank, but with all the new gear, each school is holding their own without the need of an ice wizard, correct? No reason to really taunt and absorb damage for other players. To add insult to injury, ice hasn't been given a new identity, nor the tools (or tricks in your case) to really standout. Am I tracking?
I believe I understand where your coming from....ice has lost it's flavor, no more cherry or blueberry Icees right? Okay, no more joking.
Myth has minions, Death has Health Stealing, Life is the best at healing, Fire has awesome Dots, Storm does the most damage, Balance is all around, and Ice use to be the game's tank, but with all the new gear, each school is holding their own without the need of an ice wizard, correct? No reason to really taunt and absorb damage for other players. To add insult to injury, ice hasn't been given a new identity, nor the tools (or tricks in your case) to really standout. Am I tracking?
Yes! Thank you! I was feeling like I wasn't getting my point across and was pulling my hair out trying to figure out how else to say it. As the "defense" school, there is very little outside of having high health and resist to showcase its focus. If everyone has global resist, are we to showcase the school by "out-healthing" everyone?
Let me reiterate... I don't think that ice is somehow under powered now, or that there is some sort of great imbalance (perhaps a very small one currently, but if there is it will come back around eventually) in the universe. I also fully understand that ice can still "out-tank" every other school and that a good ice player is handy to have around... but the reality is that it isn't a necessary function any more and there isn't really anything in the spell set (that makes any sense on a per-pip basis at least) that showcases its defensive focus.
For me anyway, one of the really big draws for wizard101 has been how well differentiated the schools are. I no longer see ice in that category. It may very well be that every school will blur together as has been postulated in another thread, and ice is merely the first real casualty. But if that is indeed true, I seriously doubt I would continue with the game at that point because the diversity is a large part of what keeps me interested.
I've beaten ice and been beaten by ice in high level pvp. It's not the school that has gotten weak it was the strategy of blade, blade, blade let snow angel fly that has been defeated. Your damage boost you became accustomed to was the direct result of arena gear becoming useless in the arena. Before celestia everyone had resist in the arena gear, ice choosing to substitute for 48 gear sometimes. IMO KI made a big mistake with level 58 gear That showed face in the arena and something needed to be done. Maybe new arena gear will surface giving equal stats to warlords, ice will keep the only constant health base. Right now I think that the arena has never been more balanced and have many ice warlord friends that will agree. The days of a Pre packaged ice warlord are over, as far as PvE I don't see your argument.
The arguement is simple Travis but no one seems to get it Ice is underpowered because of the waterworks gear this is the main problem everyone now has universal resistance great damage boosts great critical and a pretty decent block. However ice's waterworks gear meant that ice had to make sacrifices that other schools didn't have to. To gain critical the ice gear let go of resistance for example the trial of spheres gear gave a 10 critical rating and 17% resistance, in return we got 27 critical rating for ice, but we took off 5% universal resistance... So the idea is why is ice the school whose only advantage is resistance and health getting alot less resistance and now every school is getting universal resistance, i have talked to many warlords that aren't ice and when i ask them about the topic they tell me in complete honesty people know it isn't fair to ice, but they say they willing to defend it's balanced to defend their new universal resistance and the fact that the school that used to be a challenge to beat and a lengthy battle is now very easy and convinent for them, and while people can agree that is it is very underpowered the game gave them a boost and made another school weaker so why give it up? Thats the arguement for me but i still don't understand any Ice is OP arguement other than "Ice beat me in a pvp match" which isn't an arguement that i will give credit to.
Look, we may not like that our resistance has been lowered, but we now have even more health, we have more attack power, and we have our critical points now... Yes, more has been given to other schools, however, Ice And Fire no longer resist us as much as they used to, although they now have a higher critical chance.
We may not always like the changes, however, things always go back and forth... We may be given more on the next update than the other schools are... We just have to wait and see... We are not all that bad off, so take it with a grain of salt and move on...
Look, we may not like that our resistance has been lowered, but we now have even more health, we have more attack power, and we have our critical points now... Yes, more has been given to other schools, however, Ice And Fire no longer resist us as much as they used to, although they now have a higher critical chance.
We may not always like the changes, however, things always go back and forth... We may be given more on the next update than the other schools are... We just have to wait and see... We are not all that bad off, so take it with a grain of salt and move on...
I'm all in favor of just taking it and moving on i dont like that we are weaker and other schools are stronger but they still want to call us OP. Thats a problem i have.
your Storm friend with global resist, what is their max health vs your max health and global resist? if their max is like 2400, with 40% global resist, they need to take 4000 points of damage to be killed. if your ice has 3800 health and 50% resist, someone needs to do 7600 damage to kill you. that's significant. now, i don't pvp, so i don't care, but the universal resist is a factor of your total health. i'm glad ice can do some damage on our side, however, so i just wanted to give the numbers so people don't complain about everyone else getting universal resist now. -eli and crew
I agree about how you health affects your resist a ton. If a around 2000 health storm had 50% resist then the resist would add only a 1000 to their health making it 3000 total health. With ice however, say they have 4000 health. with 50% resist that would add another 2000 larger than storms 1000. That would make ice's resist more useful then the storm's.
thank you for your support. actually in your example, the storm wizard with 50% resist and 2000 health can take 4000 points and the ice with the same resist and 4000 health can take 8000 points to defeat. that's a 4000 point difference! sorry, i know the post isn't about that now- i just had to reply to this. -etherchaos
thank you for your support. actually in your example, the storm wizard with 50% resist and 2000 health can take 4000 points and the ice with the same resist and 4000 health can take 8000 points to defeat. that's a 4000 point difference! sorry, i know the post isn't about that now- i just had to reply to this. -etherchaos
You're right, this thread isn't about numbers... but since it keeps coming up, I'd like to address this so that people can understand how little of an advantage all that health for ice is. At level 60, considering only the waterworks gear, here are the stats for storm and ice:
So, ice base health at 60 is 2336 and storm is 1364. That brings storm to a total health of 1862 w/ +26% global resist and ice to a total health of 3376 w/ +34% global resist. I'm not adding in athame, amulet, ring, and pet since they are so variable from player to player now. Now, for the example, we'll use the rank 4 ice and storm spells of kraken and ice wyvern. I'll further skip shields so that you can see ability to do damage vs. ability to resist damage. I'll also use the lowest possible damage rating of each card. Starting with Kraken:
Raw Damage -------------- Base Damage: 520 x 1.67 = 868.4 Base Critical Damage: 520 x 3.34 = 1736.8
Modified Damage of Kraken vs. Ice resist of 34% -------------------------------------------------------- Base Damage: 520 x 1.1022 = 573.144 Base Critical Damage: 520 x 2.2044 = 1146.288
Now for ice wyvern.
Raw Damage -------------- Base Damage: 335 x 1.34 = 448.9 Base Critical Damage: 335 x 2.58 = 897.8
Modified Damage of Ice Wyvern vs. Storm resist of 26% ---------------------------------------------------------------- Base Damage: 335 x 0.9916 = 332.186 Base Critical Damage: 335 x 1.9092 = 639.582
As a percentage of total health, storm's kraken deals 25.71% of ice health base, and 51.45% for critical. Ice's ice wyvern deals 24.11% of storm health base, and 48.23% for critical. So, what are we to draw from this? What we should draw from this, I hope, is that people will stop whining about low storm health. Storm has low health for a very good reason. Second, there are a couple of other stats to consider here... Storm with waterworks gear cannot fail to cast any life healing spell but Ice can. Storm with storm spells is more accurate than ice with ice spells. Additionally, storm hits critical more often than any other school, and with more benefit because they always have the highest gear damage boost, that when multiplied by 2 (for a critical) gives a greater mathematical benefit vs. any one else with a lower base damage.
In my example, storm went from 25.71% of ice health to 51.45% which is a boost of 25.74% for a critical. For ice, on the other hand, it went from 24.11% to 48.23% which is only a boost of 24.12% for a critical which doesn't happen nearly as often. Now, I also don't want people concluding from this that it makes ice weaker than storm... it doesn't directly. At legendary, this is where individual gear selection and pet choices make all the difference. Its also where planning your deck and taking advantage of strategic spells in your own school and in secondary schools make all the difference. All I'm hoping to accomplish here is to finally put this health issue to rest. Its not nearly the advantage that it was before the addition of global resist to all schools.
Ok, although i strongly disagree with your viewpoint on universal resist, i decided instead of arguing further i'd post something that we can agree on now, thanks to you supplying the numbers for ice gear. ice is definitely getting ripped off in accuracy! you're right, storm should not be getting better accuracy than ice considering they Also get the spell lightning strike! (adds ten percent accuracy to next storm spell). -eli and crew
I agree I used to put a smile on my face when my friends would ask how i have so much resistance were as now on wizard 101 central wiki the only difference between schools is about 200 health it makes me sad we keep getting attack spells and bad shields maybe we could use a attack that gives you a shield :D
Ok, although i strongly disagree with your viewpoint on universal resist, i decided instead of arguing further i'd post something that we can agree on now, thanks to you supplying the numbers for ice gear. ice is definitely getting ripped off in accuracy! you're right, storm should not be getting better accuracy than ice considering they Also get the spell lightning strike! (adds ten percent accuracy to next storm spell). -eli and crew
Its not just accuracy, universal resistance is a huge huge problem and we can't ignore its just not possible. Think of this every school got universal resistance something that is ice's only edge in anything lol. And every school gets universal resistance, better accuracy, better attack, better critical better block with nothing to lose its all buff. BUT ice's waterworks gear isn't like this its a whole if we give you this you lose that. Why are we taking sacrifices to our resistance and accuracy when other schools didnt have to make any, And now they have the one thing that made ice... ice lol. But do not worry guys KI has given ice collosus an extra 40 damage yippie??
Ok, although i strongly disagree with your viewpoint on universal resist, i decided instead of arguing further i'd post something that we can agree on now, thanks to you supplying the numbers for ice gear. ice is definitely getting ripped off in accuracy! you're right, storm should not be getting better accuracy than ice considering they Also get the spell lightning strike! (adds ten percent accuracy to next storm spell). -eli and crew
Its not just accuracy, universal resistance is a huge huge problem and we can't ignore its just not possible. Think of this every school got universal resistance something that is ice's only edge in anything lol. And every school gets universal resistance, better accuracy, better attack, better critical better block with nothing to lose its all buff. BUT ice's waterworks gear isn't like this its a whole if we give you this you lose that. Why are we taking sacrifices to our resistance and accuracy when other schools didnt have to make any, And now they have the one thing that made ice... ice lol. But do not worry guys KI has given ice collosus an extra 40 damage yippie??
you wern't crying when ice was destroying everything in it's Pvp path. Must have been good times for you, only 3 out of 7 schools having resist against your unstoppable snow angel. No other school received this flawless armor given to ice in celestia and everyone but ice had to make some serious choices regarding gear selection. Now you're whining about choices after a cold, cold dominance in the arena that lasted half year, wahhhh. I play at rank 1300 and fight REAL ice warlords that win from first and second with waterworks gear. The problem is not Ice it is you. KI ImO brought balance to the arena and you still Cry about what? How fair it is now and how you can't get to warlord without a loss. Lol. I feel for you, but it's never going back to the way it was. One school having resist all insane health and extreme healing boosts just did not work out in arena, understanding is the first step to acceptance. Try to work on your strategy because people are getting sick of your posts, I suppose judgement is not fair too right? Enough rapid fire complaints, move on
Ok, although i strongly disagree with your viewpoint on universal resist, i decided instead of arguing further i'd post something that we can agree on now, thanks to you supplying the numbers for ice gear. ice is definitely getting ripped off in accuracy! you're right, storm should not be getting better accuracy than ice considering they Also get the spell lightning strike! (adds ten percent accuracy to next storm spell). -eli and crew
Its not just accuracy, universal resistance is a huge huge problem and we can't ignore its just not possible. Think of this every school got universal resistance something that is ice's only edge in anything lol. And every school gets universal resistance, better accuracy, better attack, better critical better block with nothing to lose its all buff. BUT ice's waterworks gear isn't like this its a whole if we give you this you lose that. Why are we taking sacrifices to our resistance and accuracy when other schools didnt have to make any, And now they have the one thing that made ice... ice lol. But do not worry guys KI has given ice collosus an extra 40 damage yippie??
you wern't crying when ice was destroying everything in it's Pvp path. Must have been good times for you, only 3 out of 7 schools having resist against your unstoppable snow angel. No other school received this flawless armor given to ice in celestia and everyone but ice had to make some serious choices regarding gear selection. Now you're whining about choices after a cold, cold dominance in the arena that lasted half year, wahhhh. I play at rank 1300 and fight REAL ice warlords that win from first and second with waterworks gear. The problem is not Ice it is you. KI ImO brought balance to the arena and you still Cry about what? How fair it is now and how you can't get to warlord without a loss. Lol. I feel for you, but it's never going back to the way it was. One school having resist all insane health and extreme healing boosts just did not work out in arena, understanding is the first step to acceptance. Try to work on your strategy because people are getting sick of your posts, I suppose judgement is not fair too right? Enough rapid fire complaints, move on
Actually i quit this game with like half my ice friends who left when snow angel found its way to this game because it was awful if you ask me, And ice didn't dominate the arena.
Yet again your just a pointless ranter lol... I'm sorry if i mistype something because my eyes are filled with tears and i can barely see lol, like really grow up lol??
Ice never dominated the arena, and they arent real warlords, trust me when i say i'm a real ice warlord ok back in DS days before you neo warlords took over with spam criticals and spritelys. Back in the days when strategy existed in this game, i got my warlord rank of my top was like 3k from 4v4s, it was of course a bet my storm friend and i had the first one to 5k keeps it the loser down ranked so of course i lost. But enough getting side tracked.
Get this through your head because every ranter i see gets this idea i dont PvP ranked anymore. Honestly Travis make an ice, because i can see completeley you would be one of the people that would delete it at krok lol.
Ice never ruled the arena i remember ranked up my level 45 myth during CL days fighting nothing but ice legends begging me to let them win, and i did a few times in fact because i just thought it was pathetic that my 45 myth could beat them because i could defend myself more than they could hit.
I understand travis your life if i remember right, that everyone is all happy that PvP is a joke and you can triage and spam heal without ever having problems and then being able to use one life blade and critcal your forest lord and do 3k damage without breaking a sweat. But i'm sorry to say thats just unfair PvP KI didn't balance and they understand this why do you think all these apology abilities keep coming out... I would say a big one would be better than a bunch of little ones.
I do not expect you to read all of this because i do know you don't tend to read posts and then just give an opinion that makes no sense and your just trying to rant. But after reading this, it has given myself reassurance that your argument was void..
Ok let me put this when constructing your arguement (i have taken debate classes forever now kind of useless but works on the message boards) Work on making your arguement a solid wall in a way that no one can break very easily. Your arguements are like a wall of fog while you can see something is there, you can still see right through it.
Ok, although i strongly disagree with your viewpoint on universal resist, i decided instead of arguing further i'd post something that we can agree on now, thanks to you supplying the numbers for ice gear. ice is definitely getting ripped off in accuracy! you're right, storm should not be getting better accuracy than ice considering they Also get the spell lightning strike! (adds ten percent accuracy to next storm spell). -eli and crew
Its not just accuracy, universal resistance is a huge huge problem and we can't ignore its just not possible. Think of this every school got universal resistance something that is ice's only edge in anything lol. And every school gets universal resistance, better accuracy, better attack, better critical better block with nothing to lose its all buff.
i only have the legend hat for myth, but i've noticed that with the gear i can equip currently i can get a 29% universal resist. in exchange, my accuracy has dropped 6 points and my damage and critical to my secondary school (death) has dropped drastically. it makes me curious as to the stats of the myth legendary robe and boots to see if there is anything else that myth would be sacrificing for the resistance. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer
i only have the legend hat for myth, but i've noticed that with the gear i can equip currently i can get a 29% universal resist. in exchange, my accuracy has dropped 6 points and my damage and critical to my secondary school (death) has dropped drastically. it makes me curious as to the stats of the myth legendary robe and boots to see if there is anything else that myth would be sacrificing for the resistance. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer
Being the geek that I am, I happen to have the myth waterworks gear totals at my fingertips. Here is the sum of the hat, robe, and boots:
I wont deny that some schools had to make some sacrifices but its nothing like ice had to sacrifice. The key quality of ice as stated is its defensive abilities. Whats the point in having a school that has that kind of quality if now not only does everyone have it, but the school that has universal resistance as its only advantage in anything lol is now getting decreased. While myth took some losses i think the next one is balance because balance is hitting with their base spell accuracy which is really bad that now a balance has more chance of fizzling than a storm.
If storm took a damage decrease i tell you everyone would be on this, so why is it different for ice?? Well i'll tell you everyone is to happy that now a school that was under powered(ice) is now really underpowered lol. And now everyone has the resistance that they have been fighting for forever and they don't care that it might ruin other players because people are selfish lol.
But you know i don't blame them at all if something was not balanced but it helped to out my own benefit, but it made others worse i would probably defend it to. But the thing is it's just not right lol.
I don't really know for sure where this thread is heading anymore. I'm not really sure we're even still on topic, so I'm just going to go ahead and do a service for anyone still reading. This way, everyone has a frame of reference for future comparisons. Here are all the stat summaries of the hat, boots, and robe for each set of Waterworks Gear:
Gear of Judgement
+781 health +53% balance damage +28% resist +88 balance crit +40 crit block +12% incoming +24% power pip chance
Hangman's Gear
+733 health +56% death damage +28% resist +96 death crit +38 crit block +11% incoming +22% power pip chance
Firestarter's Gear
+700 health +19% accuracy +48% fire damage +29% resist +114 fire crit +40 crit block +15% incoming
I am going to be a bit contrary to everyone posting here and say that ice school isn't the game's tank but rather death shool. In terms of tanking I'd place a death using attack/healing cards at the top of the list, followed by life which everyone knows as being hard to kill, and I'd place ice third. I see very few ice players training life school as their second school, but then again I see very few death players not stacking their decks with skeletal dragons, pirates, and other non attack/healing cards that my easily tanking death refuses to carry.
i only have the legend hat for myth, but i've noticed that with the gear i can equip currently i can get a 29% universal resist. in exchange, my accuracy has dropped 6 points and my damage and critical to my secondary school (death) has dropped drastically. it makes me curious as to the stats of the myth legendary robe and boots to see if there is anything else that myth would be sacrificing for the resistance. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer
Being the geek that I am, I happen to have the myth waterworks gear totals at my fingertips. Here is the sum of the hat, robe, and boots: Tricksy Gear +699 health +17% accuracy +47% myth damage +31% resist +98 myth crit +40 crit block +16% incoming
wow. that's actually a pretty significant reduction for damage and critical as well as a little accuracy. while i don't think ice's resist should have been lowered, i feel some of the classes really needed it. i'm not about ruining anyone else's fun, i barely pvp, so i don't support ice getting weakened, but i also see no problem with all classes having resistance. ice's should have been increased, however- not reduced. especially since accuracy apparently no longer reflects damage capability. -eli and crew
Everything increased except accuracy which was dropped 2 points and made to be global instead of myth specific. Additionally, you have a new +16% incoming healing boost you didn't have before and the resistance was made global and increased to just under ice's resistance of 34%.
