Earlier this year, the team at Kingsisle conducted a spell audit with the goal of making strides in rebalancing the game as a whole. It is clear that Kingsisle has worked hard so far and that they will continue making more progress towards their goal with rebalancing damage, resist, and accuracy later this year. However, I wanted to make a comment in regards to Snowball Barrage, which is currently Ice's only shadow-enhanced AOE spell. Even though Snowball Barrage was fortunate to receive a buff during the spell audit, it seems that Snowball Barrage is still underpowered. I understand and know well that Ice is not necessarily what one would call a "hitting school," however, it is only fair that Snowball Barrage, as Ice's only shadow-enhanced AOE spell, like I said before, deals the damage that it should according to Ice's damage per pip for shadow-enhanced spells, the value of a shadow pip, and taking into account the 25% damage penalty that AOE spells take for attacking all enemies.
I imagine that, during the spell audit, this spell was tricky to decide how much damage it should do since it is a X-pip spell as well as a shadow-enhanced spell. This makes it different from Tempest, for example, which is not a shadow-enhanced spell. With the way that Snowball Barrage is designed now, it seems to not take into account the value of a shadow pip (which is 3.6 pips, as Kingsisle has stated before). Therefore, regardless at what pip value Snowball Barrage is casted, the spell should always do at least 3.6 pips worth of damage because it requires a shadow pip to cast. Since Ice shadow-enhanced spells value 100 dpp, I propose that Snowball Barrage should do 75 ice damage per pip (75 is 3/4 of 100) + 275 ice damage (275 is ~3/4 of 360 = 100 * 3.6, the value of a shadow pip) to all enemies. Since this is Ice's only shadow-enhanced AOE at the moment, it makes sense that Snowball Barrage should be powerful and pack a punch. It is worth noting that this spell only deals pure damage with no utilities.
Currently, a one-pip Snowball Barrage only deals 95 ice damage to all enemies (with no damage enchant). With the proposed damage changes, a one-pip Snowball Barrage would deal 75 + 275 = 350 ice damage to all enemies (with no damage enchant). 350 ice damage to all enemies for one pip may seem really powerful, however, a one pip shadow enhanced spell should be dealing 4.6 pips worth of damage since a shadow pip is worth 3.6 pips. Similar arguments can be made for casting Snowball Barrage at any higher number of pips.
For those who have read this far, thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts and proposition. I do not want to make Ice overpowered, rather, I simply want Snowball Barrage to deal the damage that it should with regards to damage per pip, the value of a shadow pip, and the 25% damage penalty applied to AOE spells.
Ok so snowball barrage is the upgraded version of tempest, the storm spell. Yes I know you get WAY further on in the game, but once you get it you have a great spell you can one shot with if you blade and feint a lot of times. Blaze Lifehammer used it on his storm all the time until he got glowbug squall, which brings me to my next point. Is there and ice equivalent to glowbug squall. I could search through the "All Ice spells" in the wizard101 wiki but they include treasure and item cards and I have to filter them out. So I am talking about the glowbug squall BEFORE it got nerfed, I don't necessarily mean that there has to be a dispel I just want to have a hit all over 1k spell, or AT LEAST one that does somewhere about 930. Frost Giant is a weaker version of this but it stuns, but it is still too weak, this spell needs a really really really big buff because lets just compare with Fire Dragon(the reason I am not comparing it with Storm Lord is because storm is just the strongest school and it is supposed to be stronger than Frost Giant) it does more than 900 damage total AND does more than Frost Giant so Frost Giant should do 600, not more, mostly because Storm Lord does 690 but honestly they both need a buff because fire dragon does 975 total which is TOO much so Frost Giant needs to be stronger, so does Storm Lord, Storm Lord should be 700-780 somewhere it that area and Frost Giant 600-660 somewhere there. Now some people might say "Oh but Ice is a tanky school it should not do to much damage..." Look tanky means something thats big and slow, and it takes really long to get ready and does that and then when it is ready it does one strong blow and finishes everything, the opposite of tanky is when something does lots of small hits that by them selves are very weak but do a lot of damage over time, like fire.
So my two main questions(points) from this are: Is there an ice equivalent to Glowbug Squall and what is it? and(this is not really a question) Frost Giant needs a buff!
I'm not sure I get the point. It seems like you're saying it does too much and too little at the exact same time.
On my ice, I currently use 50% 45% 40% 40% blades. Rarely, I use elemental. I also use feint 70% and 80%
Lets Calculate!
I usually hit with about 8 pips (760 base)
Using only blades, this totals around 4,400. That isn't even taking into consideration critical or character damage. Which would probably boost it to around 8,000-10,000.
With feintit is boosted to close to 10,000. Again, without other buffs. Throw in some more stuff like auras, perhaps an elemental blade, even a potent ice trap and it brings the total up to 24,000 without critical and character damage. With critical, this could easily close to double.
Trust me, Ice doesn't need a version of glowbugs.
Need I say the stunts you could pull off using more than 8 pips? Using 12 pips, you get a base of 1,140. Adding everything before, This bring it up to around 6,000 then 33,000. That's a lot. That's using only 12 pips out of 14, not to mention treasure cards or pet boosts.
Doing the extreme amount card wise that I can think of, 50, 50, 50, 45, 40, 40, 45, 35, 35, 40, 35, 80, 80, 70, 75, 35, 40, 30, 35, 25. Brings to a grand total of 2 million. 2 million without treasure cards, critical, or character damage, using only 8 pips.
I'm not sure I get the point. It seems like you're saying it does too much and too little at the exact same time.
On my ice, I currently use 50% 45% 40% 40% blades. Rarely, I use elemental. I also use feint 70% and 80%
Lets Calculate!
I usually hit with about 8 pips (760 base)
Using only blades, this totals around 4,400. That isn't even taking into consideration critical or character damage. Which would probably boost it to around 8,000-10,000.
With feintit is boosted to close to 10,000. Again, without other buffs. Throw in some more stuff like auras, perhaps an elemental blade, even a potent ice trap and it brings the total up to 24,000 without critical and character damage. With critical, this could easily close to double.
Trust me, Ice doesn't need a version of glowbugs.
Need I say the stunts you could pull off using more than 8 pips? Using 12 pips, you get a base of 1,140. Adding everything before, This bring it up to around 6,000 then 33,000. That's a lot. That's using only 12 pips out of 14, not to mention treasure cards or pet boosts.
Doing the extreme amount card wise that I can think of, 50, 50, 50, 45, 40, 40, 45, 35, 35, 40, 35, 80, 80, 70, 75, 35, 40, 30, 35, 25. Brings to a grand total of 2 million. 2 million without treasure cards, critical, or character damage, using only 8 pips.
That's so much damage! So awesome! I am not high enough level for that spell yet, but I can't wait to unlock it!
I'm not sure I get the point. It seems like you're saying it does too much and too little at the exact same time.
On my ice, I currently use 50% 45% 40% 40% blades. Rarely, I use elemental. I also use feint 70% and 80%
Lets Calculate!
I usually hit with about 8 pips (760 base)
Using only blades, this totals around 4,400. That isn't even taking into consideration critical or character damage. Which would probably boost it to around 8,000-10,000.
With feintit is boosted to close to 10,000. Again, without other buffs. Throw in some more stuff like auras, perhaps an elemental blade, even a potent ice trap and it brings the total up to 24,000 without critical and character damage. With critical, this could easily close to double.
Trust me, Ice doesn't need a version of glowbugs.
Need I say the stunts you could pull off using more than 8 pips? Using 12 pips, you get a base of 1,140. Adding everything before, This bring it up to around 6,000 then 33,000. That's a lot. That's using only 12 pips out of 14, not to mention treasure cards or pet boosts.
Doing the extreme amount card wise that I can think of, 50, 50, 50, 45, 40, 40, 45, 35, 35, 40, 35, 80, 80, 70, 75, 35, 40, 30, 35, 25. Brings to a grand total of 2 million. 2 million without treasure cards, critical, or character damage, using only 8 pips.
Thank you for reading my comment! I appreciate it. However, with my post, I wanted to focus solely on base damage. Not so much on how much damage the spell can do with buffs applied to it.
So, let's examine casting Snowball Barrage with 8 pips. Like you stated, currently a 8 pip Snowball Barrage deals 760 base damage to all enemies with its current design. 8 regular pips + 1 shadow pip means that this spell should be dealing 11.6 pips worth of damage since a shadow pip is worth 3.6 regular pips. Since Ice's damage-per-pip (dpp) is 100 for shadow-enhanced spells, a 8 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 100 damage per pip X 11.6 pips = 1160 damage, however, since AOE spells take a 25% damage penalty for attacking all enemies, a 8 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 3/4 of 1160 damage which is 870 damage. 870 base damage to all enemies is greater than 760 base damage to all enemies !!! This is a huge difference. The difference between the damage it currently deals and should deal increases as you cast this spell with less pips. That was the general main idea I was trying to convey!
Now, I do want to provide another example that shows how underpowered Snowball Barrage is. As it is currently designed, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage deals 475 base damage. 5 regular pips + 1 shadow pip means that this spell should be dealing 8.6 pips worth of damage. I find it troubling that for 8.6 PIPS WORTH of damage, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage only deals 475 base damage to all enemies with no utility. Frost Giant is 7 regular pips and it deals 460 base damage to all enemies and STUNS all enemies. Since Ice's damage-per-pip (dpp) is 100 for shadow-enhanced spells, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 100 damage per pip X 8.6 pips = 860 damage, however, since AOE spells take a 25% damage penalty for attacking all enemies, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 3/4 of 860 damage which is 645 damage. 645 base damage to all enemies is greater than 475 base damage to all enemies !!!
To make a comparison to another shadow-enhanced spell with the same pip value, Glowbug Squall is 5 regular pips + 1 shadow pip and deals 940 damage to all enemies. 475 is just over 1/2 of the damage of 940!!! How can this make sense if ice's dpp for shadow-enhanced spells is 100 dpp and storm's dpp for shadow-enhanced spells is 130 dpp? 100/130 = 0.7692 ~ 0.77 = 77%. Ice shadow-enhanced spells should, generally, be dealing ~77% of the damage that storm's shadow-enhanced spells deal. Recall that Kingsisle's vision with shadow-enhanced spells was to bridge the gap between how powerful storm is and how weak ice is.
Like I said in my original post, I DON'T WANT ICE TO BE OVERPOWERED. I just observed that the spell seemed imbalanced still and offered a suggestion to resolve the imbalance in regards to ice's dpp for shadow-enhanced spells. Hope this helps clear up some of the thoughts I presented in my original post, however, I would be happy to discuss this further with you if you are interested.
It does sound like X-pip spells are planned to get a 15-25% damage penalty akin to spells that hit all enemies - this compensates for them being extremely flexible because you can effectively cast them whenever. Unfortunately Snowball Barrage was the only spell that was changed thus far, so it may feel weaker in comparison to some of the lower-leveled X-pip attacks like Judgement, Heck Hound, and Tempest. It sounds like the spell audit will continue for Rank 5 and lower spells in the coming months and this will likely include all the lower-leveled X-pip spells as well. I therefore think it would be more prudent to wait and see what the developers do with the other X-pip attacks before discussing whether or not Snowball Barrage should be changed. That way we will have something to more accurately compare it too.
For what it's worth I'd argue Snowball Barrage should get the smallest penalty possible since Shadow-enhanced spells are generally intended to hit harder and it would give a nice "pure damage" alternative to Frost Giant's "lower damage + utility". Plus shadow pips are not quite as reliable as they used to be which detracts from the "increased flexibility" aspect of X-pip spells.
Thank you for reading my comment! I appreciate it. However, with my post, I wanted to focus solely on base damage. Not so much on how much damage the spell can do with buffs applied to it.
So, let's examine casting Snowball Barrage with 8 pips. Like you stated, currently a 8 pip Snowball Barrage deals 760 base damage to all enemies with its current design. 8 regular pips + 1 shadow pip means that this spell should be dealing 11.6 pips worth of damage since a shadow pip is worth 3.6 regular pips. Since Ice's damage-per-pip (dpp) is 100 for shadow-enhanced spells, a 8 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 100 damage per pip X 11.6 pips = 1160 damage, however, since AOE spells take a 25% damage penalty for attacking all enemies, a 8 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 3/4 of 1160 damage which is 870 damage. 870 base damage to all enemies is greater than 760 base damage to all enemies !!! This is a huge difference. The difference between the damage it currently deals and should deal increases as you cast this spell with less pips. That was the general main idea I was trying to convey!
Now, I do want to provide another example that shows how underpowered Snowball Barrage is. As it is currently designed, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage deals 475 base damage. 5 regular pips + 1 shadow pip means that this spell should be dealing 8.6 pips worth of damage. I find it troubling that for 8.6 PIPS WORTH of damage, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage only deals 475 base damage to all enemies with no utility. Frost Giant is 7 regular pips and it deals 460 base damage to all enemies and STUNS all enemies. Since Ice's damage-per-pip (dpp) is 100 for shadow-enhanced spells, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 100 damage per pip X 8.6 pips = 860 damage, however, since AOE spells take a 25% damage penalty for attacking all enemies, a 5 pip Snowball Barrage should deal 3/4 of 860 damage which is 645 damage. 645 base damage to all enemies is greater than 475 base damage to all enemies !!!
To make a comparison to another shadow-enhanced spell with the same pip value, Glowbug Squall is 5 regular pips + 1 shadow pip and deals 940 damage to all enemies. 475 is just over 1/2 of the damage of 940!!! How can this make sense if ice's dpp for shadow-enhanced spells is 100 dpp and storm's dpp for shadow-enhanced spells is 130 dpp? 100/130 = 0.7692 ~ 0.77 = 77%. Ice shadow-enhanced spells should, generally, be dealing ~77% of the damage that storm's shadow-enhanced spells deal. Recall that Kingsisle's vision with shadow-enhanced spells was to bridge the gap between how powerful storm is and how weak ice is.
Like I said in my original post, I DON'T WANT ICE TO BE OVERPOWERED. I just observed that the spell seemed imbalanced still and offered a suggestion to resolve the imbalance in regards to ice's dpp for shadow-enhanced spells. Hope this helps clear up some of the thoughts I presented in my original post, however, I would be happy to discuss this further with you if you are interested.
I want Ice overpowered who does not want there school to OP and one shot and all because I will only enjoy it more if I am stronger. I dont like the people who say they want to be weaker so the game is more "fun".
That's the point I was making before. Snowball Barrage is different because it requires a shadow pip, and players can't get shadow pips every round. So, Snowball Barrage can't be cast whenever a player wants to. My other point is that since the shadow pip is worth 3.6 pips, casting Snowball Barrage at any number of pips should deal at least 3.6 pips worth of damage. That's why I made the suggestion of changing from 95 damage per pip to all enemies to 75 damage per pip + 275 ice damage to all enemies. The 275 flat ice damage accounts for the value of the shadow pip with the 25% reduction.
That's the point I was making before. Snowball Barrage is different because it requires a shadow pip, and players can't get shadow pips every round. So, Snowball Barrage can't be cast whenever a player wants to. My other point is that since the shadow pip is worth 3.6 pips, casting Snowball Barrage at any number of pips should deal at least 3.6 pips worth of damage. That's why I made the suggestion of changing from 95 damage per pip to all enemies to 75 damage per pip + 275 ice damage to all enemies. The 275 flat ice damage accounts for the value of the shadow pip with the 25% reduction.
or...(I know this will sound like a joke and would not be fair but it would be awesome if this exsisted) 1000 damage per pip to all enemies, no shadow damage and 2 +50% balance blade and one +45% ice blade, 100% of succeeding.
