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Flaw in Shadow Trickster

AuthorMessage
Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
there is a flaw in Shadow Trickster: It steals a pip even when the person it is attacking has no pips. Where does this pip come from? The future?

If you are going first and you cast a spell that uses all your pips, the Shadow Trickster should not be able to get a pip from you to give to your opponent, because there is no pip to steal.

please fix this KI.

Survivor
Jan 14, 2012
16
It's not as simple as it seems, remember there is delicate coding in the dueling arena and the mechanics of spells. That flaw you speak of is inevitable as if I perceive how the trick works, as not in coding moving the pip but working as destroy one of enemies, and gain one, it will always have the same effect.

So take that logic into a situation where you have no pips at the time, it will still work as you lose one and he gains one, but in this case you can't subtract one from zero so you will still have zero. As far as the game is mechanically concerned, the pip isn't moved as much as destroyed and trickster gains one.

A+ Student
Mar 31, 2009
1713
ChicoValerian on Apr 2, 2018 wrote:
there is a flaw in Shadow Trickster: It steals a pip even when the person it is attacking has no pips. Where does this pip come from? The future?

If you are going first and you cast a spell that uses all your pips, the Shadow Trickster should not be able to get a pip from you to give to your opponent, because there is no pip to steal.

please fix this KI.
I personally don't see this as a bug, but I understand why some might.

From a lore perspective, pips are manifested magical energy. Whereas shadow magic is reality bending- I do not see this as a problem and it probably is extracting the energy from your subconscious mana reserve if none are present.

From a coding perspective, it's -1 pip to enemy and +1 pip to caster. The pip is not actually being stolen, one is being destroyed and another one is being manifested.

I also understand why this may be a bit annoying from a PVP perspective, but generally speaking- I prefer the current implementation. (As would probably any caster, as opposed to someone this is used against.) If it were up to a vote, I'd say that we keep the feature as intended, but good for noticing the discrepancy to the common vernacular.

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
If the trickster is stealing a pip and there is no pip to steal, he can't synthesize pips from nothing.

If you go to an empty bakery to steal bread, and there is no bread, you can't steal the bread they are going to make tomorrow. It's pretty simple.

The game does whatever the code tells them to do. The code for this spell is flawed and it should be fixed to account for the situation where there is no pip to steal.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
As others have explained, even though the spell states "steal a pip" all the code is really doing is -1 from an opponent and +1 to you. It works this way with all pip steals- from Celestial Calendar to Shift Piscean. I hope the current mechanic remains unchanged because the player going first already has too many advantages. He/she doesn't need another.

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 4, 2018 wrote:
As others have explained, even though the spell states "steal a pip" all the code is really doing is -1 from an opponent and +1 to you. It works this way with all pip steals- from Celestial Calendar to Shift Piscean. I hope the current mechanic remains unchanged because the player going first already has too many advantages. He/she doesn't need another.
Can you explain the unequal advantage?

In a scenario where trickster does not steal what does not exist to be stolen:

Using trickster from first you would not always be guaranteed a pip, even if you cast a trickster-like.

Using it from second you would not either.

Both players choose their next cast AFTER the trickster has been invoked.

What am I missing?

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
here is another issue with trickster, will probably be a pain to recode this but...

I am farming Indigo Giant. He has a minion, a death seraph. The death seraph is in first position, the giant is in second.

I cast trickster, then the next round PowerNova, which is a AoE that places a weakness.

But it does more damage than the seraph has health, and she is defeated. It does damage to the giant but does not defeat him, instead it places a weakness on him.

The trickster does not steal a pip in this circumstance, but it should, from the giant.

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 4, 2018 wrote:
As others have explained, even though the spell states "steal a pip" all the code is really doing is -1 from an opponent and +1 to you. It works this way with all pip steals- from Celestial Calendar to Shift Piscean. I hope the current mechanic remains unchanged because the player going first already has too many advantages. He/she doesn't need another.
Eric -- Trickster does not steal a pip if the spell you cast caused the opponent to be defeated. So I think it similarly should not steal one if your opponent has no pips when you cast.

Historian
Jun 19, 2010
657
What is the purpose of the Shadow Trickster spell?

And how and when should this spell be used in battle?

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
Shadow Trickster gives the caster quite a bit of additional Critical. If you cast a spell that Trickster likes it also 'steals' a pip from your opponent.

So I guess you could use it anytime you want additional Critical and/or additional pips and to deny your opponent pips.

...there are nuances to it, but that is basically why you would use it.

Historian
Jun 19, 2010
657
ChicoValerian on Apr 9, 2018 wrote:
Shadow Trickster gives the caster quite a bit of additional Critical. If you cast a spell that Trickster likes it also 'steals' a pip from your opponent.

So I guess you could use it anytime you want additional Critical and/or additional pips and to deny your opponent pips.

...there are nuances to it, but that is basically why you would use it.
Thanks ChicoValerian! This is awesome news!

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 4, 2018 wrote:
As others have explained, even though the spell states "steal a pip" all the code is really doing is -1 from an opponent and +1 to you. It works this way with all pip steals- from Celestial Calendar to Shift Piscean. I hope the current mechanic remains unchanged because the player going first already has too many advantages. He/she doesn't need another.
Eric --

If that is the case, then trickster should steal a pip for the caster even when his opponent is defeated, no?

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
Here is another one: Cast dark nova, place a trap, trickster steals a pip. on the next round you can blade nova for a like, then nova places a trap. but trickster does not steal a pip for that trap. I think it should.